Say it Sister...
Lucy and Karen, two 40-somethings, are always chatting about life, and all that it has to throw at them, and now want to share their raw, honest conversations with you. Their journey of self-discovery and healing is something many of us can relate to. We all possess a unique power within us, but life’s trials often knock us off course. They have the tools, the courage to speak up and simply say it as it is, so you might feel seen, and understood and gain practical tools and techniques for self-discovery and personal growth during the changes we experience.
Say it Sister...
Women Uplifting Women Through Challenges And Claiming Our Voices
How do you reclaim your voice after it has been silenced? Join us in our inaugural episode of the Say it Sister podcast, where Lucy and Karen share their deeply personal journeys of empowerment and self-discovery. We unpack the courage it takes to post on social media, the supportive bonds that strengthen us, and the transformative power of using our voices to speak truth. Hear Lucy's story of how a single critical comment when she was temporarily silenced her, and how she found the determination to speak out again. Together, we reflect on how facing misogynistic behaviour has driven us to reclaim our voices and help others do the same.
We also delve into the pervasive issue of harassment and assault, sharing personal experiences and statistics to highlight the gravity of the situation. Discover how speaking out about such experiences can be both empowering and healing. We recount a distressing experience from an Italian restaurant job and explore the role of intuition and emotional intelligence in recognising when something feels off. Learn about balancing strategic silence for safety with the necessity of vocalising needs to maintain a sense of self. Join us in fostering a supportive community where women uplift each other and advocate for change, especially as mothers of daughters committed to making a difference.
Hello and welcome to the Say it Sister podcast.
Speaker 2:I'm Lucy and I'm Karen, and we're thrilled to have you here. Our paths crossed years ago on a shared journey of self-discovery, and what we found was an unshakable bond and a mutual desire to help others heal and live their very best lives.
Speaker 1:For years, we've had open, honest and courageous conversations, discussions that challenged us, lifted us and sometimes even brought us to tears. We want to share those conversations with you. We believe that by letting you into our world, you might find the courage to use your voice and say what really needs to be said in your own life.
Speaker 2:Whether you're a woman seeking empowerment, a self-improvement enthusiast or someone who craves thought-provoking dialogue, join us, as we promise to bring you real, unfiltered conversations that encourage self-reflection and growth.
Speaker 1:So join us as we explore, question and grow together. It's time to say Say it Sister. Hello, it's Lucy here, so this is episode number one of the Say it Sister podcast and I'm so excited. How are you feeling, karen Ready?
Speaker 2:joyous. I'm always happy to be with you. Amazing, it's going to be fun. So today we're going to be talking about the power of feminine voices and why now is the time to speak your truth and share your opinions and ideas.
Speaker 1:You know, every time I post something on social media I have to take this big gulp before I press the post button. I always get that worry or concern about what are people going to think? Am I taking up too much space? Have I overposted? All of this stuff goes on in my head but for some reason, whenever I'm with you, I just feel so at ease, just sharing. So let's share who we are. Let's do it properly.
Speaker 2:I'm Karen, I'm Lucy. We're both certified professional coaches and leadership facilitators, working in a range of sectors and areas of specialities.
Speaker 1:We're both women in our mid life. I am a proud feminist. Get it out, get it out there. Nothing's going to hold me back. And yeah, proud feminists working to further the feminine cause of equality and empowerment. We are also business owners. We're mothers, friends, daughters, and after meeting each other in a coaching classroom in 2012, we found a connection.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then we lost. We lost contact for a while, didn't we? And then we came back together after misogynistic behavior invaded our life, our spaces and our bodies, and whilst we never want to experience that invasion again, I'm so grateful that it brought us back together after misogynistic behavior invaded our life, our spaces and our bodies, and whilst we never want to experience that invasion again, I'm so grateful that it brought us back together and now we talk about anything anytime that we care about and that deeply impacts us.
Speaker 1:That moment where we got back together a couple of years ago, it was truly healing for me and, yeah, really grateful. And yeah, we are now ready to bring our conversations to you. So I was thinking over the weekend what is it that we're doing? What is it we're taking a stand for? So what is it in your words, Karen?
Speaker 2:Well, for me, women and warriors. We are the designated life bearers. We hold a great deal of responsibility in our bodies and we are connected to the moon, the tides and the mystical. And that's a little bit of woo in me that's coming through, but I know that we hold this deep mystery within our bodies.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally agree. I'm holding that woo space as well, as well as being the professional corporate person that I can be. But you know that as I'm getting older, I'm starting to see that we are wise. We have this wisdom within us and maybe it actually takes us to this stage in our lives before we realise it. We have always been strong, confident women, but I've often felt silenced. I've not been the role model that I wanted to be. I have ideas, opinions, beliefs and loads of wisdom to share and I want to share it so that others might also find their voice and take a stand for themselves and the world around them.
Speaker 1:Do you know what I was thinking and actually having a conversation with my own daughters about, maybe where my spark of finding my voice came from? And do you know what my dad was? An amazing dad, and he would often, you know, poke me to get these conversations flowing about the most ridiculous things and sometimes the really important topics, and he was often controversial. He would get me all wound up, but he was really teaching me to find my voice, to express myself and to challenge and be challenged, and I just thought that's how it was supposed to be in the world and I have this really vivid memory I was in Italy on holiday with my soon-to-be father-in-law and I can't even remember what we were talking about. But I just went into the old patterns that I went with my dad about debating and after a couple of rounds with my father-in-law, he just turned around and said Lucy, you are so opinionated.
Speaker 1:And it really hit me because I'd never been called that before. I felt it was a real yeah, it was rude, it was just. It really hit me hard and I hadn't realised until recently that I'd been carrying that. And, equally, that moment that he said that actually silenced me and I stopped speaking out, I stopped being the opinionated one sharing my thoughts and I mean, there was a lot more loaded than that. But I think that was the anchor, because I respected him and he was an elder to me and I really respected him. And yeah, it's. It's taken years of me trying to understand why I lost my voice, or I always had it, it just didn't come out. And now I guess I've got this perimenopausal rage that it's like no, I need to let let these thoughts and opinions and beliefs out. So at least now I understand why I was so angry yeah, I mean my heart sinks when I hear that.
Speaker 2:You know it's like the, the strong, safe arms of the paternal. You know the, the guardian that sits with you and will like hold space for you to share and get your voice out in the world. We all need those, um, those anchors, those, those humans that do that for us versus the. You know, the commander, the controller, the. You know, don't speak too much, say what it's like, the command and the control element of patriarchy which is passed along down the line. And you know, men and women hold it in their bodies and we act in accordance with that. And I see these two different role models in your life and it just takes me on my own little journey where I think we carry so much, you know so much. That goes with that. It's one incident over many. I don't know how long that went on for, but obviously over the course of your life. That's a long period of time to doubt, question, hold back.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know what it wasn't just the male figures, like you say is the, the patriarchy, because there was a lot of internalized misogyny from the women in my lives my aunts and my, my own mother, my school teachers and and I have got well I was like the first girl in the family, after a drought of maybe eight or nine years, got loads of older boy cousins and we'd always just play and it would just be free. But I always remember they could always pin my voice and say, lucy, stop screeching, or Lucy, you're being too loud. Yet the boys were allowed to be as robust as possible. So you know, when I go back, I realised that all of these messages about women's voices, they were coming from everywhere. And yeah, now we see it in politics and things like that, where women, if they get too feisty in an interview, they're being so dramatic and just too emotional. Or you know, hillary Clinton was called shrieking when she was actually just raising a point.
Speaker 2:so it's everywhere and you know, part of saying it, sister, I guess, is about just normalizing that women do actually have voices and also like actually holding up the narrative that we've all born, been born into, and actually that we have our own little way of changing that narrative. Because I don't know about you. You know, when I think about powerful women I'm like she is a force, she is not to be put into a corner. I mean, you think of the whole like dirty dancing. You know, nobody puts baby in the corner. You're not going to have a woman connected to a voice that will sit there and look, you know, prim and pretty, whilst there's this you know huge dance happening. I mean, the only sad thing about that film is that Johnny has to come and take her out of the corner and then she shows, you know, her full sort of power and range as a dancer. But you know, there's so many metaphors in that for us as women to be like hold on a minute. This is my voice, I have something to say.
Speaker 2:I think the biggest step is to listen to our inner voice and actually find that inner voice for ourselves and actually cultivate and find out.
Speaker 2:What is it that I want to say today, what's my opinion, what am I feeling and what do I believe and what would I like to see, and I think that inner voice piece, I think of actually nurturing that muscle and growing and shaping it is so important for women because we can share, you know, our desires and our needs.
Speaker 2:But we've got to be a little bit careful in the beginning that we share it with the right people, that we are not, um, misguided in some way and we don't open up. You know, it's like the flower going into the sun. We don't want to open too fast, but we just want to open up inside first and then listen and then we start to speak, but we share with the right people and, um, we protect ourselves as we do that, because the world is not a safe place for women who, you know, speak their truths openly in public spaces. It's not, it's still not 100% safer, as in every single, as we know from what's been going on in the news, you know we need to be a little bit careful still and that is very sad, but it's true. What's your experience of that, lucy?
Speaker 1:Yeah, as you were talking. It just reminded me of the conversation we had a few weeks ago, when we were talking about this podcast and about how we've got to keep safe ourselves, because you know, we're gonna we're putting ourselves out there.
Speaker 1:We're gonna have conversations about stuff that really matters, that really matter to us, and some of it will be deeply personal. Some of it will just be conversations about what's happening out there in the world and, um and we all know that women who speak publicly uh, whether it's publicly in work, in your communities or on the worldwide web um, they will face some pretty vile backlash. And yeah, there's a bit there about you and I. We we've got each other and so we know that in our conversations we're completely safe. But as soon as we publish it out there into the world which we have to do because we're trying to role model and break these, these societal norms but as soon as we do, there is that fear in the back of your mind of, yeah, who's going to come for me? So, yeah. So there is that element of, yeah, being safe. And because all of us have had those experiences where we have spoken up and somebody either told us to be quiet, don't create drama, turned a blind eye, do you know what?
Speaker 1:It's just reminded me of a story of when I was probably about 19, 20, and I was working in an Italian chain restaurant and I was locked into a cupboard with a male chef and, yeah, it could have got a lot worse, but I got away. But it was horrendous. And again, that strong, confident woman that was within me came out and and got me out of that space and it also uh, that part version of me that it's there also allowed me to go to the manager and raise it as a complaint and I was told that, well, it's your word against his um, there will be a huge investigation. It's not going to go anywhere, so why bother?
Speaker 1:And I, I took it, I was raging again, but I quit because I thought that's the only agency I actually have. And and it's true, it's, you know. And I never told anybody that story for the years and years because I was carrying that shame. And now I've got to the age where I'm just like, no, we have to tell these stories. And it's not, like you know, restarting the me too movement, because it hasn't gone away, but it's actually about let's just talk about the stuff yeah, and everyone, we all hold these stories.
Speaker 2:You know, if you look at the statistics, one in three women in the UK are sexually assaulted. That's a lot of women, and half of the women that have been do not report, and for good reason. And it's like, why bother? Because actually the legal system's not really in our favor. The police are not necessarily behind us. You know, am I actually safe in the police? I don't want to whip up like so lots and lots of fear, because that's certainly not my job here, but my my job is to sort of look at what's going on for women, look at what's happening in our lives and try and make sense of some of it in a way that can navigate and redirect.
Speaker 2:I think the whole thing around the shame that we carry, which is not our shame, which actually belongs to other people, is huge.
Speaker 2:And I think it's time for women to say hold on a minute. These things have happened to me and I am carrying someone else's shame and I'm going to give it back. And we don't have to go to that person and say this is your shame, take it back, but we can, through our voices, through our inner work. You know, it could be therapy, it could be counselling, it could be dance, it could be yoga, it could be coaching. It could be looking at yourself in the mirror and saying it wasn't your fault, it wasn't your fault. It might be having a conversation with the person, but they're not in the room and saying something like take it back, this is yours, take it back, take it back, take it back. You name them and you ask them to take back the stuff that they put into your body that is not theirs. This is my body. You know there is so much that we can do as women to claim our power back, but it has to start with that ultimate truth of what has happened to us in the first place.
Speaker 1:I'm going to hang back to you anything you want to say on that yeah, it is interesting, um, because we, when we say, say it, sister, and we're not saying you have to go out there and say it to the world and you know, um, whether that's on social media or go to the police or tell you know strangers about your experience.
Speaker 1:I have utmost respect for people who do write books or share their stories in that way, but that takes a huge amount of courage and sometimes the biggest courage you've got is to be able to name it to your best friend or your partner, even your dog or whatever. Just just say it. This happened to me and it wasn't my fault. I'm not carrying this anymore and so, yeah, it might be a little whisper, it might just be a thought, it might be in your journal, it doesn't really matter, but whatever, the courage is to go to those places and just say it. Whatever you need to say your, your voice, your experience is valid, it's not shameful. And, yeah, hopefully we're encouraging people through our conversations to just speak freely. And I've got to say, every time you say something, it sparks off another example in my mind, and so I can't wait to share those with the world because and we've got?
Speaker 2:we've got plenty more to be talking about, haven't we? We've got so many. We're going to be here for a long time, talking weekly and sharing our stories, because we are women that have lived extensive lives and have had many experiences. Many great things have happened to us, but awful things have happened too, and we're going to be here to really, really champion the cause of women in a way that brings women forward and also helps our communities, our families. You know, this isn't not just about one woman doing her own personal work. This is about women coming together, doing the important healing, sharing their stories and then helping each other, because that's absolutely vital. And do you know what?
Speaker 1:um, we both shared that we are mothers, but we are mothers of daughters, and my eldest is out there in the world. She's just reached her 20s. The other one is, you know, school age and you obviously have a younger daughter as well. And something really shifted in me, I think, think, when I became the mother of a daughter, um, and, yeah, it really made me really take stock, um, especially when she started that, when my you know, my first born started getting into relationships with young men or started going out there into the world and being, whether it was cat called or whether you know, the school said that she had to wear tights to preserve her modesty and all this kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:And it was almost like not just my own childhood, but almost like my ancestors childhood was all coming through like I have to break this. I cannot have her and all of my children, all the daughters and the sons in the world, thinking this is okay, to keep your secrets and be shamed for stuff that they don't own. And uh, yeah, and just as an aside, I did write to the school, um, and give my outrage at the fact that they needed girls to wear um tights, even in the summer when it was boiling hot, and the response that I got was well, they can wear trousers. Even though I was trying to raise it as a you know, this is a bigger issue they didn't want to get into the conversation. They said they can wear trousers. And I'm just like okay, this is how it's going to be, it's crazy, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Because I do feel like many of our systems fail women, and I know they fail men as well. But we're here talking on the feminine, talking about feminine voices here, and the more that we can just let them know where they're failing us, let them know where they are, you know, not meeting the right standards for women, the better. We all have a voice and we need to use it. I mean, I wanted to share something about that. You know, I was thinking about the time when I you know when did I start thinking about my voice? When did I start to change my voice? And as I was a very shy child, so I was very quiet, I was very shy. I'm an only child, so there wasn't any other kids in the house, so I was always on this sort of quiet spectrum, I would say. So that wasn't a big deal, because that was fine in the house. But then it was when I went out into the world and I developed very young.
Speaker 2:I grew up very young as well, and so when I was in primary school, I had my first period, I had boobs and I hit puberty, and that's when my whole sort of like life changed quite quickly and there was a my mum was working at the time. She'd she was focusing on her career. She was a nurse. Um, she's working in hospitals and a friend of hers said my husband will take, will take Karen to school, and so this man would pick me up in the morning. He would, he would arrive early and he would sit in his car outside the house I've got goosebumps just thinking about it and he would sit and just look at page three.
Speaker 2:Now I was a young girl with breasts and having periods not connected to my body you know all of the sort of the shifts and the changes that go with that and he would sit and look at you know, topless women, and I felt so incredibly, incredibly uncomfortable, you know. And so I said to my mum mum, I don't want to get in that car with a man. I don't feel safe, you know. So I was really, in a way, I look back and I'm like proud of that young girl for being able to voice that, to know that she didn't feel safe, to feel like it wasn't a comfortable space for her to go into. And I was told you just have to get on with it. And so for a while he took me to school. It stopped at a certain point. He stopped taking me to school, so my mum had listened to me and another plan was put into place.
Speaker 2:So something did change, but I couldn't tell you because I was very young.
Speaker 2:I couldn't tell you how long ago was it, but it felt like a long time that I spent in that car with that man and what happened in the process of that time and it's probably around about three months, you know, twice a day on that ride, feeling deeply uncomfortable is that my voice, my sense of yeah, I don't even want to call it sense of self.
Speaker 2:I felt like I have a voice but it's not listened to and I am disempowered is the word I give it now, and I'm almost powerless. You know, in my, even though I know something's wrong, I have to go along with it, and that started really young for me, and it took me a long time to over, like you were saying before, overcome the damaging effects of having to just get on with it, even though something did change. But we never celebrated that change or there was never really a discussion as to. So there was all this stuff that was sort of hidden, you know, and I just took it as a huge negative, basically, and that this older man had the power and I had none.
Speaker 1:Did it stop you from speaking up after that?
Speaker 2:Yes, 100%, because I was always like, if I felt uncomfortable and I still have to work on this, and now I'm 48, where I'm like, oh, I feel really uncomfortable in my body I would ignore that because that's what I had to do, so I would ignore all those feelings, what I had to do, so I would ignore all those feelings, all those like, when they were negative feelings, I would ignore them which were very, very dangerous for me, and it's the worst thing that we can do as women. And now I know I was 48 years old that when I get that uncomfortable feeling, it's information. I really, really listen and I really go okay, and I have boundaries now, which I didn't. I didn't know how to have boundaries then, but now I'm like I've got a feeling it's, it's telling me something. I need to, I need to do something, even if that's just leave the room or, you know, make an excuse or whatever it might be, cross the road. Um, I listen to that feeling because that uncomfortable feeling is the sign that something's off me and that is the thing that I will never ignore anymore, because I have a promise to myself. But it definitely, definitely was.
Speaker 2:That would be my root cause of not trusting because I can speak up, but if I don't get heard or I don't get listened to or I'm told, you know, just get on with it, that's quite. That's more dangerous, I think, in a way, because it's almost like I've spoken but I'm not being heard. And I think, as women, we have many examples of that in our lives, where we speak and people go yeah, yeah, and then they continue to do the behavior and you're like hold on a minute, I've just said no, I've just spoken, and you are continuing or you're still walking towards me. You know, and I think the more we can sort of like deal with that moment by moment and actually step into our power and use our voice in a way that says a very clear no and we have to keep saying it and we have to keep saying it, then we do find our voices in a different way and we do become powerful and grounded in our voices. But it doesn't come overnight, this is like daily work you know what?
Speaker 1:I can't wait for us to get into the conversation about the different ways that we collect information and so the different ways that we hear and the voice of the body, the voice of the intuition that we hold is so powerful, and I think everybody has had that experience where their gut or their intuition is just saying look around that corner or walk a bit quicker or cross the road here. Look around that corner or walk a bit quicker or cross the road here, even though there's, you know nothing actually going on. There's something there within us, and I don't know whether we even give that voice and allow that voice to say it either. So, yeah, it's gonna be really interesting when we start exploring this.
Speaker 1:And we talked about this feminine energy and you know, this ability for us in particular to really feel you know all the senses but feel it in our bodies is powerful, and I do a lot of work with leaders and clients and we spend a lot of time doing emotional intelligence and for some it's really easy, but for those who find it the easiest are the ones who are already listening to that inner voice and letting it speak and give information, and so you know that all of the um, the EQ specialists say this is something that can be learned, developed.
Speaker 1:It's not a sexist thing, it's not, you know, gendered, but I have to say that my inner intuition has always been a guiding light and when I've chosen to ignore it, it has usually been at my peril, and that's the bit like you've done it again, lucy. Um, so yeah, tuning in, so I really hope we get to explore that in a lot more detail and talking about terms like you know, the divine feminine and the, the, the crone, the hag, the maiden and the warriors, because, again, this is language that we can reclaim.
Speaker 2:It's almost like everything has been sort of, you know, eroded for such a long time and I feel like now is the time to, like you say, reclaim our intuition, reclaim our emotional intelligence, reclaim the stories, but do it from a place that feels right for us today. You know, if you look at, like the, the fairy tales of, like the elders, they're not portrayed in a particularly nice way. You know, they're generally the bringers of death. You know, destruction and whilst you know we do need to sort of face into that a little bit and actually we do need to sort of burn things to the ground sometimes to start over, there's a really good energy to that. We're also coming into this different life stage where we are. You know we're not yet the elders, but there is elder wisdom inside us and it's coming through. You know we're in this empress, this queen state. So you know we're here to sort of like, take our throne. I mean, it all sounds a little bit, you know, but it's true. It's true we're here to take our throne and we're here to be the sovereigns of our own lives, and these are really really big words.
Speaker 2:But how much do we minimalize our words and minimalize our space and minimalize our voices. It's like all the is it safe for you? Is it safe for you? Are you enjoying what you're hearing? All of that that we do? That is, I think, called survival. You know that's been programmed into us.
Speaker 2:Like I am here, you are here to live that out in a different way and hopefully to show that I, that you can, you can be truthful to yourself and you actually, if I'm really going to get to the point, I think staying silent is a good short-term strategy. I think if you're in a room with people who are not on board with you and it's not safe, the best thing you can do is play it silent. But as a long-term strategy, it's the worst thing you can do because you're so eroded and then you're naturally going to put yourself into places where you are not safe. So the power of our voices has to ring through. It is our finest instrument and it's the way that we demonstrate what we want and it's how we ask for what we want. So we're here to you know, to make some changes, I think yes, say it sister.
Speaker 1:Yes, say it sister.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. And you know what? The one one thing that I just want to add on to what you you just shared there was that even if you're silent in that moment because you need to be for safety, then once you're out and you feel safe, then tell somebody or write it in your journal or whatever you need to do because you need to let that go, because otherwise you're just stuffing it down there of again, this, these feelings of dread or whatever the fear was, and if you don't let it go and say it and let it out, you just keep storing it, and we're storing far too much of it. So, absolutely, um, yes, do what you need to do to be safe, move, adapt, do whatever, but then say it, speak it, do whatever you need to do to let that energy out.
Speaker 1:And so I'm going to bring this to an end just by asking our listeners to join in the conversation, and we have created a safe space on the Facebook group Say it, sisters. So we'd love to invite you there, and it will be a safe space where we can just share. So, if you've got those moments where you think I have nowhere else to go with this information. You can come and just share your story with us and we'll be there with open hearts and open ears and everything else just for you.
Speaker 2:And you can also follow us on at Karen Harris Kelly and at Lucy J Barkers. We would absolutely love to see you popping up into our feeds telling us what's going on for you, sharing anything that you want to share, and we'll, of course, give you our professional opinions as well, if that's what you'd like.
Speaker 1:So thanks for listening, and we can't wait to welcome you next time.
Speaker 2:Until then, use your voice journal, speak or sing out loud.
Speaker 1:However, you do it. We hope you join us in Saying it, sister.