Say it Sister...
Lucy and Karen, two 40-somethings, are always chatting about life, and all that it has to throw at them, and now want to share their raw, honest conversations with you. Their journey of self-discovery and healing is something many of us can relate to. We all possess a unique power within us, but life’s trials often knock us off course. They have the tools, the courage to speak up and simply say it as it is, so you might feel seen, and understood and gain practical tools and techniques for self-discovery and personal growth during the changes we experience.
Say it Sister...
Asking for help Pt 1: Transforming Help-Seeking and Redefining Leadership
Lucy found herself grappling with stress, often hesitating to ask for help until it felt too late. Karen, meanwhile, faced a life-altering accident that left her vulnerable and in need of support. Their stories bring to light the complexities and emotional hurdles surrounding the issue of asking for assistance. Listen as we break down the taboos and societal expectations that discourage us from seeking help, especially for women who are pressured to manage it all. Discover how embracing vulnerability can lead to healing and growth, and the profound realization that we are worthy of the love and support we seek.
Inspired by the natural world, we explore the beauty of shared support, using the imagery of wild geese to illustrate how nature thrives on collaboration and mutual aid. The discussion challenges societal norms that compel individuals to carry burdens that aren't theirs and encourages shedding those inherited responsibilities for true liberation. By recognizing that others are often willing to help, we can unlock a sense of freedom and empowerment previously hindered by self-imposed barriers. Our conversation intertwines personal anecdotes with broader reflections on how collaboration and asking for support can lead to meaningful change.
Reconnecting through vulnerability and collaboration, we share how our renewed partnership has fueled a creative podcast venture. By combining strengths and supporting one another, we've experienced the transformative power of teamwork, open communication, and the courage to reach out. This episode advocates for redefining leadership by embracing authenticity and emotional expression, creating an inclusive space where both women and men can feel empowered to access and share their emotions. As we close, we invite you to join us in embracing your authentic self and preparing for next week's practical insights on effectively asking for help.
Hello and welcome to the Say it Sister podcast.
Speaker 2:I'm Lucy and I'm Karen, and we're thrilled to have you here. Our paths crossed years ago on a shared journey of self-discovery, and what we found was an unshakable bond and a mutual desire to help others heal and live their very best lives.
Speaker 1:For years, we've had open, honest and courageous conversations, discussions that challenged us, lifted us and sometimes even brought us to tears. We want to share those conversations with you. We believe that by letting you into our world, you might find the courage to use your voice and say what really needs to be said in your own life.
Speaker 2:Whether you're a woman seeking empowerment, a self-improvement enthusiast or someone who craves thought-provoking dialogue, join us, as we promise to bring you real, unfiltered conversations that encourage self-reflection and growth.
Speaker 1:So join us as we explore, question and grow together. It's time to say say it, sister, hey, hey, hey, everyone. Today we're talking about the importance of asking for help and how. Now is the time to bust this taboo once and for all and full disclosure. This is the topic that I find most difficult and it's a daily struggle for me. How about you, karen?
Speaker 2:Well, first and foremost, I'm sending you so much love, because this is one of those topics that you go.
Speaker 2:It doesn't get easier, but it's a practice, and it can be one of the hardest things for us to do, because it brings so many taboos up at the same time, and it can just be totally overwhelming and overloading for our brains.
Speaker 2:So it's a territory, though, that we all need to step into in some way, because otherwise we're left alone, and we're left feeling like we're alone, and I think you know there are people who I can do it easily with, like my husband I can ask for help, no problem at all and probably, to some extent, my parents um, because there's a sense of like, acceptance and trust, and I'm pretty sure he's not going anywhere, so you know he puts up with me. And then there are other people that I'm generally more wary of, who I wouldn't ask for help from unless I was desperate in some way, and I think you know it's that the idea of being rejected. You know, if I ask for help and then I'm rejected or I look stupid, that's kind of a lot to carry, I think. So, you know, it depends on the person, but it's a major topic, and it's one that I think is really important for us to talk about today.
Speaker 1:When was the last time you asked for help? Well, I was thinking about this. It was quite a while ago, but I make these small bids within my household quite a lot and with my best friend, you know, I might need somebody to help me take the dogs for a walk or pick up my child from here or drop them off there, um, or can you even things like can you pick up some milk on the way home? You know, really small stuff, the big stuff. I can't remember the last time I really asked anybody for help and I think it's because when I have done it in the past, yeah, I have felt that, that rejection, or maybe it was my approach. My kids laugh at me all the time because they say they know when I'm stressed, because I start just saying you never help me and I'm like, yeah, it's probably because I don't ask for help enough. So it usually comes out in a period of stress, out of desperation, rather than a calm centered. I really need some help on this.
Speaker 2:So it's it's a huge learning for me yeah, and it feels like there's a big space here for some healing and some growth as well. I think for me as well. But I do practice this one quite a lot because it's over the many years and the many life experiences I've had some very vulnerable moments in my life and you know where I've had to literally had to ask for help and receive help because I've had no choice. I mean, you know. But to share this one quickly, but when I was 31 I got hit by a car and I had a little scooter that used to drive around in London and it was a hit and run and a guy just drove into the side of me, knocked me, me off my Vespa and the Vespa went across my knee and I fractured the tibia and the fibula on the plateau of my knee, which is a major area to fracture bones because the knee is so complex and you know, if it had been 10 years before, I would have lost half my leg and the recovery for that was absolutely major and the pain that I experienced in hospital was like nothing I've ever experienced and I couldn't like get upstairs. I couldn't walk for six months, you know. I had to have people like help me get to the toilet, help me get into the you know shower. My leg would be sticking out of the shower because I couldn't get it wet, I couldn't bend it. You know, it was like the most vulnerable experience.
Speaker 2:I felt like I was a child again, but I was 31 years old and it taught me so many things about receiving, and also about receiving from a place of um genuine love, I think, because when you are so vulnerable, people genuinely want to help you and it just did something. It repatterned me in a way that I remember today. And so when I get into that place of I'm all alone, something, when I listen to that voice that says you've got to do it alone, something resets somehow and I go no, actually that's not true, because that's not my experience, and so I remember that, and then I it gives me the courage to, number one, ask for help but, number two, receive the help and know that I'm good enough and know that I'm worthy and that I deserve to receive love and help yeah, it's interesting because, as you were sharing that story, I think the only time when I've really felt that that vulnerability physically was after um, I had a c-section with my uh, with my child and um, and they say, you know, six weeks recovery.
Speaker 1:You can't go to the shops, you know, or drive your car, etc. But it was probably a good two weeks before I could do anything really physical and mentally. I you know full resilience there mentally, um, and emotionally I felt really good but, yeah, physical resilience was something I'd never, or or vulnerability, should I say, something I've never really experienced before, um, not in adulthood anyway and and I did surrender and I remember staying in bed because I was also feeding my daughter and uh, and I do remember and this is just again my inability to ask for help, but somebody who's always shows up when help or support is needed. That's just the way that I I have been programmed.
Speaker 1:About four days after I had the C-section, my eldest was in like a nursery nativity and it was the first time and she was I think she was Mary, so it was a major role and there I was. I was saying to the doctors I have to get out of this hospital. You know, I have to do this for my daughter and I remember walking in straight from the hospital we hadn't even gone home yet straight into the nursery and I was there being helped. I hand, you know, one hand with each person and really trying to step by step go in and I was in excruciating pain. But I was like I'll power through this. And I look back now. My daughter doesn't remember, um, she was only what? Three? And I'm just like why do I do it to myself? Um, and it's just that thing, like I am a perpetual helper. Yeah, I just, even today, still struggle with the vulnerability of needing to ask for help absolutely, and I admire you for showing up for her, I do.
Speaker 2:There is, and I think, the idea of I think childbirth is a whole separate subject that we should talk about in a different issue. You know, like birthing our children, then the recovery process. I think this is like a whole big, huge topic because it's probably, you know, it is definitely a time in our lives where we do need more help than before because we just don't have, you know, we're carrying babies and we're, you know, trying to get in and out of rooms with a sleeping baby in our arms or whatever. If we've got no hands, you know it kind of that we are more vulnerable, we need more physical help. So I think that on its own is a standalone one. But let's get more into, you know, the idea of help, because there's a poem that is a leadership poem that people use, I think, in the corporate world these days as well, and you know it is by Mary Oliver and it's the geese, the wild geese poem. I'm just going to read it. You do not have to be good, you do not have to walk on your knees for a hundred miles through the desert, repenting, you only have to let the soft animal of your body. Love what it loves. Tell me about despair yours, and I will tell you mine.
Speaker 2:Meanwhile, the world goes on. Meanwhile, the sun and the clear pebbles of the rain are moving across the landscapes, over the prairies and the deep trees, the mountains and the rivers. Meanwhile, the wild geese, high in the clean blue air, are heading home again. Whoever you are, no matter how lonely the world offers itself to your imagination calls you like the wild geese, harsh and exciting, over and over, announcing your place in the family of things. I've got goosebumps all the way up my body.
Speaker 2:And, yeah, when we watch the, when we watch geese in the, in how they share you know the leadership position and how they move in and out of the combinations of what they need to fly, you know it's a beautiful thing to observe and you know obviously they're not going help me, help me, help me. But there's something that's in their you know way of working together that is like no one has to hold it all on their own at the front, like we share the load, we share this position because it can be really lonely when you're. You know you're there and you're like well, it's all down to me and if I don't do it, then no one's going to do it. And yeah, I've had many of those experiences in my life and I know you have, and there has to be a better way of doing it. What's your take on it?
Speaker 1:So, hearing the words, what came up for me because I'm not poetic, but the way that you read it really really landed with me. And what came up for me is that the world and the universe actually is always available to us and all that's in it, without judgment. And I guess you I guess you know, you know I'm a nature lover and I always use that to support me, um, when I feel most unsupported. And yeah, just hearing you know the, the deep trees and the mountains and the rivers, they know what to do, they're there to hold us, um, so we're never truly alone.
Speaker 2:That's what came up for me yeah, and you shared that before, didn't you? You said to me earlier on. You said, oh, I went out for a walk in nature and I was looking at you know the different, the berries on the trees, and you know these moments where we get centered, with back within ourselves and we realize that we are human and we are, you know, we're connected to everything, ultimately, in some way, shape or form, and also we're vulnerable because we're held in this space, aren't we? And it's like we see that berry or that flower and you go oh, it touches a part of us somehow, you know, and it reminds us that we're here to feel and we're here to experience and we're here to be loved and seen.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, it's just, there's so much there and you know, even when I was like walking down the canal path this morning on that nature walk, I'd grumbled a little bit in previous weeks that the hedges hadn't been cut back. And then I noticed this morning that the hedges had been cut back and somebody has been out there to help us walkers, us commuters, and it's just those little acts of help computers and it's just those little acts of help. And, yeah, the, the person within me. Um, I could have quite easily have just written to somebody and said please, can you help me? It's not very accessible, didn't even occur to me, but actually as soon as you do ask for help and I do know in my own experience whenever it's happened people actually want to help. I'm a helper, I love helping other people and and sometimes I just need to be asked. So it's like learning to turn that around and just saying we all need a little bit of help and we all actually do like to help in return.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. It's just. There's something that that goes back into these different taboos that we hold and the idea of, whilst I think intellectually we know it and instinctively we know that we all need help, you know there are times, especially, when we need more help than others, and we know that and yet there's just this something that is getting in the way of us. Actually, you know, really, really stepping into that and embodying it in a way that isn't doesn't make some, doesn't make us victims, or there's something wrong with us.
Speaker 1:You know it's like flipping that narrative, but the narrative is there, otherwise we wouldn't all struggle to ask for help and I think it might touch on what we talked about in the last episode, which is about like we're we're all trying to do it all and we've kind of grown up in a period where, um, women have tried to have it all and tried to do it all and um, yeah, that's what came back to me that previous conversation we just had.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the amount of pressure that we face to be all do it, all have it. All you know, and I know from all the conversations I have, that women are overloaded, they're overburdened. I feel it too. I take responsibility on for stuff that is just totally not mine, and a lot of my work the last few years have been about giving that responsibility back. Even sometimes it's like a physical thing here, take that back, it's not mine. Sometimes it's a energetic thing.
Speaker 2:Where I go, I've been carrying this stuff for so long and it's not even mine. That was. That was something that I picked up at school or, you know, at college, or my mum said it and I've been carrying it and I thought it was my stuff. And it's not my stuff. And energetically, here you go, that's yours. Um, so asking for help when we don't feel strong or we don't feel enough, the thing is, when we ask for help, generally it's because we need something, and we don't always feel strong in that, because we know we need something. So it brings up so much, doesn't it? What's coming up for you?
Speaker 1:yeah, there was a recent thing for for me where, um, a big decision needed to be made and actually it had been going round and round and round in my mind for months and I hadn't said it out loud to anybody.
Speaker 1:I'd journaled it a bit, but it's been there and it wasn't until I reached out to somebody and I realized that they were having the same experience equally, that we then helped each other to make the right decisions for us independently, but it turned out it was the right decision, you know for, for both of us, and it just felt that the decision being made felt less big, less huge, less scary, because I was doing it together and they didn't. I didn't ask for help, I just shared I'm really struggling with something at the moment, and they were just a good listening ear, empathetic, and it made me realise that sometimes you don't have to say I need help. Sometimes you just have to be vulnerable enough to say I'm struggling, or I'm finding this decision really hard, or I'm not able to complete this thing. I don't know what to do, and again, people will generally offer help.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a much more subtle way of doing it, isn't it? It's a much more stepping in in a you know, almost like way, because if you are right, people, genuinely you know, you give someone space, they want to share what they know. You know, that's true for all of us because we carry so much wisdom. So somebody says what you know. It's that old thing when you're in a coaching session and a client says to you what do you think?
Speaker 2:And it's like I've got to control myself, every single part of my body, from actually just sharing what I think and saying it doesn't matter, what do you think you know, and it's like back over to you because it's about their voice and it's about what's going on inside of them. My opinion is, you know, it can be valid sometimes, but it's not, it's not the center of the show. So it's a whole different ball game, isn't it sometimes, where you're like, but generally, if you're in a conversation and someone says what do you think, it's like great, I get to sort of share my opinion here, like let me just, you know, go for it, and it feels really good to be heard but I think it's um, the reason why I've allowed myself to keep this thought going a long time in my head and not verbalize it is because all of the situation that I found myself in was all of my own choosing.
Speaker 1:I said yes to this and yes to that and yes to this, and suddenly I felt completely overburdened with all of these responsibilities that I'd said yes to, and it was almost like I felt like well, you don't have the right to complain. You chose that, and I think I see this with so many of my friends and the relationships around me, where people are struggling with their careers, the childcare and the commute, organising everything and all these roles that they're fulfilling. And then you're like well, you wanted it all women, you can't complain now. So it's kind of like this yeah, we're scared of this. Well, I told you so.
Speaker 2:I have to say it, sister, at this point, because this is literally it. I think this is the conversations that women are having. It's like how do we keep it going, how do we keep the juggle going? It's like it's something about needing to be needed that validates us, but then when we need something, we are needy and take up. You know, so we're then the needy ones and it goes. It's so against our natural. I don't know if it's our natural instinct or if it's just something that we've been trained to be. I can't answer it 100% right now. You know, it feels counterintuitive to then say, oh, I've got something that I. You know what I mean. This is a struggle for me, it's not. It's just it goes so against the grain and so we just can't win, can we? Well, everyone? Well, no one wants to be needy, nobody wants to be that needy person. You know, we know that, and yet we have needs, and I think this is one of the biggest taboos as women that we have to face. To go hold on a minute, it'd be.
Speaker 2:What does being needy actually mean? You know, can we reclaim that and do it in a different way and talk about it differently? To say I'm doing all these things and and to, in order for me, to, you know, continue, I need x y z, x y z. You know it's just like name it, label it, talk about it, see where it's available, because the one thing I have learned about asking for help if somebody says no to you, somebody else around the corner will say yes. So human beings, we are survivors, we're naturally resilient, we are creative, resourceful and whole. As we know, as CTI coaches and I've seen this time and time again you know where we find a way to get what we want, because that's what we're programmed to do it's, it's.
Speaker 1:It is interesting because, um, I've always said these like silent prayers. Now you might call them manifestations or affirmations, prayers, even spells, whatever, but I've always said them out loud and they've always come true, even you know the parking fairy asking for the help and just saying, please, I really need a parking space. And whoa, there's one there. So all of these little mini miracles, or whatever you want to call it that, they happen every day. And it's interesting because, although I've been doing that for years, because of the wave of feminism that we grew up in, that told us to reject everything feminine, it you know give, give, give, do your work, get into action, but don't receive, don't ask for help. You can have it all, but don't complain about it. I've got that Barbie movie in my head, right?
Speaker 1:now as I'm talking, but, yeah, it really stands true for me. But actually my intuition and my instinct has already been asking not humans for help, but it's been asking the universe, asking whatever it is out there that you believe in for help every single day absolutely.
Speaker 2:Do you think the feminine is the receiver of a receptor? We, and also we're the carriers. We receive life, we carry life, we birth life and that is our. You know, that is a gift that's been given to us, whether we use that or not.
Speaker 2:You know, it's down to each woman, but it's a gift that we've been given. So we are here, on some levels, to receive joy, to receive pleasure. You know, if you think about, you know, women who are revered, there's definitely an upholding of that. But we, we live in a system of society we always say like, oh, it's a patriarchy. You know where? That's the opposite, because somebody has to be in control and really the control has been with men, so you can see how this has been eroded all the way along.
Speaker 2:Basically, and and it is a time for women to reclaim, I think, their queendom, their needs. Let's start with needs, you know. Let's just reclaim that, because once we're clear on that, we can actually become forces. And if we need it, someone else is going to need it. Um, and it's that's when we join together and that's when you see huge changes happening. You know, huge movements, changes in legislation, women in politics, female surgeons at the top of the game. You know, it just goes on and on and on. And it doesn't have to be the big, giant stuff. It can be the small, tiny steps as well that underpin a huge movement where women are revered, women are upheld. But we have to believe that in ourselves first.
Speaker 2:And I think when we talk about taboos, you know, if I think about asking for help, I think the old me was like, oh, that makes me vulnerable, that makes me I need rescuing. Yeah, I'm opening myself up to somebody else here and I'm not gonna know. Um, that makes me look like I'm needy, it makes me look weak. I will be defenseless in this moment, which makes me a victim. And also, I'm not. I'm not in charge anymore because I'm not directing it myself. So that you know that's an absolute no. And if we think about the times that we grew up, you know sisters doing it for themselves, the 90s, huge 90s thing where we were out, you know, know doing our thing and standing up for ourself, and you know being independent and just girl power, girl power.
Speaker 2:You know, and I love that, I have space for that. I lived it, I breathed it and there's there's something else more evolving, that is, you know, I can see how that is a channel that becomes like rigid inside and hardwired into I don't need anybody, I just need myself. And that is a lie. We need each other.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it got to a stage where, even like because we just didn't want to be seen as vulnerable or needy and yeah, we did have this girl power that even if somebody offered us a seat on the tube or opened a door for us, we'd almost feel like what do you think I'm needy? Do you think I'm pathetic? And it was almost like this real edginess came out of it and I've got to say, for some parts I was, I was a bit of the poster girl for that, I'm not gonna lie and I had to really unlearn that, um, these behaviors of not being able to receive and that asking for my needs was not being needy. It wasn't that I was looking for a saviour. Actually, I was just asking for my basic human rights. You know that I deserve. It took me a lot of unlearning is what I guess I'm trying to say and it was quite painful. And I'm still not there yet, because when I have tried to reach out to people, I have felt a lot of rejection. I'll give you a real example for one that it still hurts, but I can be with it now.
Speaker 1:Probably about 11 years ago I was in a really toxic relationship and you know I was part of that relationship. I was allowing stuff to happen. So together we were very toxic and it got to a point where I was like I need to get away from this place. And in a moment of real need I phoned my mum and I said look, she has a rental property. I said if your rental property ever comes up for rent, can you give me first refusal? I really need to get out of this place. And I was basically just saying please, help me. And I kind of got a bit of a brush off as well. They're brilliant tenants, they're never going to leave, and that's the way that I received it as a huge brush off. And I was like, well, please, if it ever comes up. So I put the phone down and I felt totally helpless.
Speaker 1:Now I went through all of that then, actually about through about two months later the rental property did come up. My mum did help me out. She helped me move. Um, she, you know, gave me a reduced rent as such, and she was able to take care of me. Um, and she would never have known I was in that crisis point had I not have been vulnerable enough to ask for help when I was absolutely on my knees. Um, but it still stays with me. The first response um, yeah, so, and actually I did need a little bit of rescuing at that time.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah there's nothing wrong. We all have moments in our life experiences where we need rescuing, where someone needs to come in and be like I've got you, I see what's happening and I'm here for you, and sometimes we can't find our voices to be so articulate to say can you, this is my needs and can you meet them. You know, we're just not in that place and that is absolutely fine. Um, I just want to acknowledge you for number one. You had, you had some sort of vision coming up so you knew where you wanted to go. You know it sounds awful, and so I have great empathy for you and then obviously the universe collided with that and actually empowered it to happen.
Speaker 2:So you were brave and you stepped in. You didn't go full, whole hog, but I don't think in these moments we genuinely do. That's why we need to practice outside, you know, because when we're in the crisis moment we're doing our best, but it's kind of not instinctual at that point. But if we can practice asking for help and being vulnerable outside of, you know, when things are moving well and good, then then we've got something already in our system. That's like hold on a minute. We've done this before and it's worked out really well. Let's try it again, because this is really what is required. And yet you were manifesting. So, um, you did great.
Speaker 1:And I can see that now. And and also, I guess the lesson for me was that you might ask for help and not get it in that moment, but you get it when the time is right. And so again, it's having that little bit of trust and faith that it's just not ready now or it is coming. And that's really hard when you you you're desperate, you need the help now. But again it's also then for me, it's looking at the steps beforehand. Beforehand, because I, again, I knew that I needed help earlier than the point when I asked and had I have done it in a more um, productive way, in a more subtle way or even an overt way, but in smaller pieces leading up to that. My mum probably wouldn't have been so shocked when I asked her.
Speaker 1:So, again, it's all that, um, when you notice or you start thinking it like, try and find the words and, like I do now, I journal them. What is it I want help with? What is that? I need, um, who can help me? Um, and you were one of the best people that I reconnected with when I had another problem, you know, about four years ago, and we reconnected again because I thought I really need help. I can't do this on my own. And here we are, all those years later and the light came out.
Speaker 2:And, you know, as I was thinking about things recently, I thought you know, who do I need? And I was like I need Lucy. And then we started talking more about, you know, menopause and you know, these big life changes that women go through and the work we've been doing separately. And it brought us back together. And well, how do we move into this space together? And we'll, you know, you said we could do this, we could do that, we could do a podcast, and I was like, oh my god, a podcast, let's do that. And here we are, you know, quite quickly, we got into action quite quick and we've made it happen really quickly. And so there is that we could have done it alone no way, absolutely no way. And that power of the two and the you know it's so cheesy, but teamwork makes the dream work, it's so true, and it's been.
Speaker 2:This journey has been really reaffirming for me, because I've done it with you. There is no way on this earth I would have done a podcast on my own Number one. It's just not like the technology stuff, all of that. You know, it's a big no area for me, and working with you means that we you know that you are brilliant in certain areas, where I am not, and it we complement each other. But it's also the journey of it that's the most important thing to be connected to somebody and to be able to say what do we want to do, how do we want to take this forward, what do we actually need to talk about, you know, and to grow, to grow from there, knowing that as we do that, we help other people in the journey too. But we are very central to this and I think that's the healing for me as well to come together with somebody who I trust and be like do this, let's hold each other's hands, let's talk about things that are vulnerable and let's grow and learn at the same time.
Speaker 2:And it feels wonderful when we're on the top of that hamster loop. You know we're on that hamster, in that cage and we're going around on that circle. And when we're at the top, it's like this is I'm having a great time where look at me, look at all the things I'm doing and spinning, and then we're there for a while and then we start to slip down because we're getting tired or things just start going wrong or whatever's going on, and then we start to get into our heads, then we start to talk negatively to ourselves and then it's like, oh my god. And then we're at the bottom of the hamster wheel and then we're like, holy smoke, how did I even get here? Now we're going to get off this and I need help. You know, and it's that constant, like it is constant in all areas, and it was.
Speaker 1:There was something that happened last week. We were chatting about about something and you went aha, this is overwhelming me, this is too much. And actually having somebody there that you can just be completely open with and just say this is really hard. And I think I said, look, just take all the time you need and, whenever you're ready, use it, this information. Don't use it, it's fine, because there was no judgment there. And I think that's where, when you start really practicing asking for help, you realize that actually most people aren't judgy.
Speaker 1:And when, even when I worked in really large teams, I would always use the asking for help as a way to join teams together. So if somebody would, as the leader, the manager, would come to me and say, how do you do this? I'd be like, oh, tracy over there really knows a lot about this. Why don't you go and talk to Tracy? And then you'd start seeing them working together and building relationship, because asking for help builds connection and it's something that I think you know we all just need to be more practice at. Just go, build relationship, build connection, and you soon learn the people who aren't supposed to be on your journey, because they're the ones who'll reject you absolutely.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know, asking for help was the key thing that I learned when I did my CTI leadership training and I'm not going to go into the details of the exercise because I don't want to ruin it for anyone who may do it. But you know, the message is and was, the first step to finding your leadership is to ask for help. And the way they did it was, you know, not like a textbook, school book scenario. It was all experiential and it was an amazing experience because everyone struggled to get the answer.
Speaker 2:Basically, you know, and some people got it quicker than others and there was a whole kind of unfolding of that and what that really meant.
Speaker 2:Because the idea being that we've all been taught that you know the leaders at the top of all the answers and they know what to do about things and they have the vision and you are part of that, but you know they don't change seats so much. You stay in your position and you stay in your rank and then you cascade down and you know people cascade down to you and it's that whole sort of like hierarchical approach to leadership which is actually outdated and defunct. And I do agree with levels of hierarchy in some places, because that isn't can be really important. But within those spaces there's, there's room for movement and changing and you know working in different ways and I feel like if we can't step into, like, the vulnerable spots and the open spaces and have open conversations, then there's no room for like change, growth or creativity yeah, whenever I'm doing any work with leaders not in a coaching environment, in a workshop environment I they see me as the leader in that room and I'm always incredibly vulnerable and I ask them.
Speaker 1:You know, if there's anything you need, ask me. And then I just turn it very quickly and what I really need from you because I start role modelling it straight away about you know, and it's like one of the basic phrases is you know, I need you to be adults. If you need the toilet, just go to the toilet. If you need a break, just let me know Some really basic practicing skills so that they can see oh, asking for something is really normal. Yeah, when you are in a position of leadership, showing your vulnerability, saying I need help or I can't figure this one out, you're the expert in this, what do you think? Or can we all get together and just brainstorm some of this stuff? It really then A again, creates that relationship, but it role models what asking for help looks like, because I've been at the top and when everybody comes to you for the answer, it is exhausting. You know, I'm not doing my best work. I'm trying to fix everybody else's problems. I never want to be in that space again.
Speaker 2:Oh, no, awful. And you know, I remember, I remember, yes, similar things with that. And I remember I was the last one in the office. For a while I was head of a department and you know I just it felt like the teacher. I felt like I was sitting there going through people's work with a red pen and I was like this is not how I want to work. I was only 28, so I was really young, and so I was like, well, what am I going to do about it?
Speaker 2:And I created an empowerment plan for the team and we we created from what wasn't working, basically, and we're like, well, how can we do this differently and what could we do together? And are you on board? Are you on board? Because if one person's not on board, we can't do it. And we did this whole. It was kind of a culture piece that was ahead of the time. Um, that was really amazing and it it worked. It really, really worked and everyone had a voice. And you know it sounds like quite you know, hippie skippy, you know, but there was something really magical about that because it was collaborative and it was way ahead of time it might have felt that back then, but now we just call it inclusive leadership.
Speaker 1:It is a thing, it's easy you're right.
Speaker 2:You're right. At the time, it was really, really something, and we had a subculture within an organization and, luckily, I had an amazing boss that was like, do it your way. And he said you've created the most incredible dynamic. And it wasn't I didn't create it, we created it, you know. But it came. It was born from frustration. It was born from, um, things not working, and it was born from an open space and there was also, I think, acknowledging frustration, things that don't work. It's an opportunity. We've also got to be able to step into that vulnerability and I had to say to them I don't want to be here at like eight o'clock with my red pen. That's not the vision that I want. We need to do this together. Can you help me with that? What do you need? Like you said, this is what I need, what do you need? And we sort of step into a space in a different way and everyone's got a part in that. You know, we're all part of the whole, aren't we?
Speaker 1:and it's interesting because you know, most organizations, um, were organized and structured and the model was made under the patriarchal system. We know this um because it was the men who held those positions who built these structures, because women weren't allowed into those spaces and we just carried it on. And men are naturally fixers Not saying all men are, but the majority of men, the testosterone within them. They like to fix things. And so part of my learning in that environment was how do I take a step back and I'm really clear about what is it I need, but also asking them to deliver it in a way that they understand.
Speaker 1:So, for example, I might say I'm really struggling with this concept. Example I might say I'm really struggling with this concept and one of the men within the team would then go straight into advice giving, fixing what you want to do is this, what you want to do is that. And so I would have to then start saying what I'd really want is us to just explore some ideas together, or sometimes I just want you to listen to me saying this out loud and just check my thinking, so as when we start getting into this more inclusive leadership, it's not only being vulnerable, asking for help, naming things when they're not working. But it's also being really clear on what help do you actually need?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And this I absolutely adore this point because the fixing thing drives me insane. So you know cause it's like I'm not asking, I'm not broken. I am not a light that has been broken. You do not need to change the light bulb on me. Thank you very much. I have my own light. I can power that up myself.
Speaker 2:And so you know, now that I'm like 48, I will literally say, right, okay, can we, can we have a conversation Normally to my husband? And I'll be like I am okay, I'm not losing my mind or anything like that. I am here, I'm not broken, I just need you to hear me and I'll let's lose the word. Just I need you to hear me. Please don't try and fix anything for me. I want you to hear, I just want to be heard. I want you to hear. I just want to be heard. I want to say these things out loud.
Speaker 2:And he's brilliant now because it's been 10 years and he knows what to do and he'll, he's, he goes into the space, whereas you know, in the beginning we were like fumbling all over the place in a way, because we're like I don't, I don't know how to have these conversations with you and you don't know how, to have whole space for me and, like blimey, it took us a long time to get to where we are now and now and he comes out with some absolute genius comments. You know, like he said to me the other day I was complaining about I wasn't I well, I wasn't. I was talking about my period and I was having a really bad one. And he said to me having a period is really really hard on your body. Like, who are you? Wow, what have you done with rich, you know? And it was just brilliant because he's and he meant it, it wasn't like a superficial comment, he really meant it.
Speaker 2:And I looked at him and I was like, thank you so much for that comment. You're right, it is really hard having a period. And he was like I was like, and everything, it was like time stood still and it didn't even need to say anything else, say anything else. I didn't. I was like I'm just just acknowledged you, he heard you, he saw you. Amazing, so simple in so many ways, you know, and yet I don't think anyone's ever said that to me in my whole life. You know, and I'm coming towards, you know, I've probably got another couple years of periods left and it'll be done, and I've never heard anyone say that to me. No one has ever said it to me and it was like yes, absolutely, it is really hard and I've, you know, tried to ride through it for too many years and it was a wonderful moment.
Speaker 1:is what I want to say, and he really helped you in that moment and still today it's still.
Speaker 2:I'm still feeling the you know the sort of the rip and I keep thinking about it, you know. And then, kian, that was really profound, like it's so simple.
Speaker 1:I remember that the whole period thing growing up, um, I I don't know was it tampax or body form or one of them it would always have these women going swimming and hiking and playing um on the cycle and things like that. Um, and it's like, oh, you're having a period, so what, just get on with life, it's fine. So I actually then adopted that whole mindset and then when my daughter started getting periods, I kind of brought that in and then I was like, no, what am I doing? What am I doing? And so now I'm like, okay, it hurts, do you want, do you want, a hot water bottle? Why don't you go and just lie down and chill? So I'm like actually, yeah, you need help. Right now you're telling me that you're in this space and we've got to kind of break these masks, that we've got to be strong all the time and we've got to be all powerful and invincible and we can fix everything because it is exhausting.
Speaker 2:It's exhausting, it is exhausting and, you know, I feel like there's like so many different almost like parts of us and different even phases of life that sit inside of us that we can access in a positive ways as well, and it's like if we just show our strength and our power, then we're not being true to ourselves.
Speaker 2:We don't. If we don't show the other side the times when we're in pain or whatever, and we're hiding that, then we're not being truly authentic and it's not a true representation. And it also means that other women go along with truly authentic and it's not a true representation and it also means that other women go along with it too, and so we don't actually benefit. We're actually not moving forward, in a way, and as women, we are emotional. You know, we do carry so much wisdom, but there's a lot of emotion in the space and the more we can access that, the more it gives other women permission to do the same and it's so powerful like I, just to be a real, emotional, truthful woman, is going to build so many bridges for ourselves and for others is what I know and for men too, because it gives them permission to access what they may be feeling around us and do you know what this is for all the listeners?
Speaker 1:um, carol and I always get together for about 10 minutes before we actually press the record button and, uh, and she asked me, how are you? And at the point of recording it is a full moon and and last night I had a really low, emotionally charged evening and and it really hit me, I just didn't want to talk to anybody and it just came out of the blue and and, yeah, when she asked me this morning, how are you, and I was just able to say, actually, I feel like I've been going through it and it was such a blessing because you know we have to bring our energy, but being able to just go right now we're present. You've got to be able to release that dark stuff the fears, the worries, the concerns, the tiredness and also be excitable and energized and joy bringers. And all of that, we're all of it and it can flow in any, any minute minute, and I think this podcast that we do for both of us is a great example of that vulnerability and that sharing the power of two coming together.
Speaker 2:It's beautiful and when you show up authentically, truthfully, tell me what's going on with you, I feel safe. I feel safe in the space with you. It gives me permission to number one, listen to you, to number one, see if there's a way I can support but not only that to be myself. You know, and I think it's. I feel like we're going to be having so many like penny drop moments, um, as we go along this journey and and hopefully the people listening are having them too and going like, oh yeah, how can I step into that and be truthful? Um, and who is my person?
Speaker 1:So, yeah, this is kind of like a reminder that whenever we have a broader discussion topic the next week, we usually try and give you some practical tips. And so, yeah, the next Friday it'll be landing and we're going to be talking about practical tips for asking for help.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and don't forget to like, subscribe, to help us reach and share our voices, and you can contact us on Instagram, facebook and TikTok, or join the private Facebook groups where you can share any of your stories, any questions that you may have or any topics that you'd like us to talk about as well. Thank you so much for being here with us today and we look forward to more.
Speaker 1:So thanks for listening, and we can't wait to welcome you next time.
Speaker 2:Until then, use your voice, journal, speak or sing out loud. However you do it, we hope you join us in saying it's a star.