Say it Sister...
Lucy and Karen, two 40-somethings, are always chatting about life, and all that it has to throw at them, and now want to share their raw, honest conversations with you. Their journey of self-discovery and healing is something many of us can relate to. We all possess a unique power within us, but life’s trials often knock us off course. They have the tools, the courage to speak up and simply say it as it is, so you might feel seen, and understood and gain practical tools and techniques for self-discovery and personal growth during the changes we experience.
Say it Sister...
Rediscovering Desires: Navigating Self-Expression and Empowerment
Have you ever felt like your desires have taken a backseat to the demands of life? As women, we often find ourselves navigating a complex web of societal expectations and biological inclinations, which can lead us to prioritize others' needs over our own. On this episode, we share Karen's heartfelt journey of losing touch with her personal desires amid the responsibilities of motherhood, alongside Lucy's reflections on her evolving aspirations as her children grow more independent. Together, we take a closer look at how personal desires related to freedom, sexuality, money, and power transform throughout different stages of life, underscoring the crucial role of self-awareness and inner strength.
Rediscovering and healing our relationship with sexual power and identity is no easy feat. Our conversation takes a deep dive into the profound impact trauma, motherhood, and life changes have on our sexual desires. We highlight the struggle of balancing societal expectations with personal self-expression and the importance of maintaining intuition and safety by not shutting down parts of our bodies. Discover how embracing sexual energy can catalyze creativity and abundance in other areas of life, and how self-exploration and understanding one's sexual power are invaluable tools on this intricate journey.
We also unravel the intricate dynamics between intimacy, power, and money in relationships. Financial issues often mask deeper concerns about respect, roles, and appreciation, and we uncover the ways money serves as a currency of power rather than the root problem itself. Through insightful discussions about communication and clarity in partnerships, we emphasize the importance of articulating desires and needs to foster understanding and mutual growth. Join us as we explore how past experiences shape our ability to ask for what we need and how overcoming these barriers can lead to fulfilling and balanced relationships.
Hello and welcome to the Say it Sister podcast.
Speaker 2:I'm Lucy and I'm Karen, and we're thrilled to have you here. Our paths crossed years ago on a shared journey of self-discovery, and what we found was an unshakable bond and a mutual desire to help others heal and live their very best lives.
Speaker 1:For years, we've had open, honest and courageous conversations, discussions that challenged us, lifted us and sometimes even brought us to tears. We want to share those conversations with you. We believe that by letting you into our world, you might find the courage to use your voice and say what really needs to be said in your own life, whether you're a woman seeking empowerment, a self-improvement enthusiast or someone who craves thought-provoking dialogue, join us, as we promise to bring you real, unfiltered conversations that encourage self-reflection and growth.
Speaker 1:So join us as we explore, question and grow together. It's time to say say it, sister, hey, hey, hey, everyone, we're back, and this time we are talking about asking for what you need, what you desire, and this is a topic that a lot of women find really, really tricky, because we are not only raised, but also all of that oestrogen inside of us is there to take care of everybody else, be a nurturer, be a caregiver. So often we don't think about what we do actually desire, and sometimes, when we do ask for it, we then ask out in a really clumsy way. So I'm going to hand over to Karen now, because I've got a bit of a cold and I'm struggling a little bit. So over to you, karen.
Speaker 2:Oh, isn't it juicy to think about our desires. You know, yeah, it still feels like it's such a huge taboo, and I dedicated a long period of my life to my desires. You know that I, just when I went into being a coach, it became this like language that I created with myself and, you know, felt quite free in the space and I would go off and do lots of amazing things. But in the last couple of years I found it harder to connect into my desires because I'm a mom. I found it harder to connect into my desires because I'm a mum and I feel like there's just much more responsibility and it's almost like my desire has become almost like less of a focus, less. It has less space, to the point where recently I've been thinking oh my God, I've no idea what my desire is Like. I've totally lost connection with that part of myself.
Speaker 2:But even just knowing that I've lost connection is helping me to open back up into it and I'm actually dedicating a practice right now to my desires which is already doing some positive things in my life, and I feel like, as women, we are told to ignore our desires unless it's a sexual desire. I think we're encouraged to do that in some places. But in listening to the heart's desire, we actually can be steered on our needs and there's a difference between a need to go to the toilet, you know like your body's got a need, and you need to go take care of that need, as opposed to something that might feel almost like just more hidden, more juicy in a way. Like you know, for me my desire is often to feel free. That's quite a big desire that I have inside of me and there's a lot of needs that come in with that freedom. But do I listen, do I follow? Yeah, what comes up for you when you think about your desire and your needs?
Speaker 1:It is really interesting, as you were talking about how it shifted for you now as mother, because my children are getting to the stage where they don't need me so much anymore. Mother, because my children are getting to the stage where they don't need me so much anymore, and I am now being called to think about, well, what is it that I want in my kind of empty nest world, because I literally have got all the freedom to follow whatever desire I want. And it's interesting because, um, when I was doing my um coach training, um, we, I think we did this exercise where it was about the book of our life. So you had all these different chapters and then you could write whatever chapter you want. And I remember thinking and saying, well, in my 50s, that's going to be my only really true decade and I'm going to go and live abroad and I'm going to open this business and do X, y, z, and came up with all of these dreams. That felt really exciting and, you know, real to me.
Speaker 1:And here I am at this stage of my life and I'm not even sure I want those things anymore. So it's again, it's about well, what do I desire? So I have got some very clear desires that I want. But actually those things that I wanted in my thirts and 40s, they just don't resonate anymore. It's got a different feel and it's the same things like at one stage. The sexual desire that I had, or had to be seen as sexual, that shifted. Now I'm a woman of a certain age.
Speaker 1:The idea of money that's another really interesting one, because around the whole money thing again earlier in my life I needed it to build, to grow, and now I've got to a stage where I don't need to build and grow. Actually it's just about what gives me that freedom or gives me that stability. And then the whole power thing. I really don't want to play that game anymore, but it's about internal power for me now, this real desire to actually step into my inner power and basically say it's sister and live it out fully. So that's what's coming up for me, different ends of the spectrum and but the same sense Absolutely, and it's that place.
Speaker 2:Isn't it the triangle that exists that I was looking, trying to Google it before, try and find out what is the name of this triangle so that we can refer back to it for people listening? But there is a triangle that's around power that exists and it's the sex, money and power. And I'm going to call it the sex, money, power triangle because that's all that's there right now and basically, this idea being that all of these points of this triangle connect and, as women, we have been trained in a certain way to you know, respond to sex, money and power in a specific way, and I feel like just even knowing that most people in the world today have got a level of discomfort, um, with the idea of you know sex, money and power is really, really important because then you can start to like look into your own relationships with these areas, because we all we all have a relationship with our sex, with our power and with our money, and if we're not in a healthy place with those, then you can guarantee that it's going to have a negative connotation in the way that we're living our life. And I feel like it's not about having perfection in all these three areas, but I feel like it's more about awareness and saying, oh, which, the where, what taboos do I hold personally? And which is the strongest area that I can focus on today? Because if I look at, like, the money and the um, the power, I feel more at ease with those those areas at this point in time in my life. But I actually feel quite uncomfortable with the sex area, and so this is my current work that I'm doing right now, alongside my desire you know, the desire of the heart, which is can be quite different to the body's desire um, and then trying to really go into that sort of area of sex. Because if I feel uncomfortable with my sensuality, my sexuality, that is a really negative energy that I don't want in my body.
Speaker 2:And when I think about my story and what I've experienced in my life, I've had a lot of trauma around sex. So I've had to do a lot of healing and as I've been doing the healing work, I'm opening back up actually to my own desires in a different way and thinking what are they now? You know, I'm at a certain point in my life I don't. I did, I almost like put a chastity belt on myself at one point. I was like I just have to just shut this area down because I need to do the healing, and obviously I had a child as well. So I go child in my womb space and all of these things that happen to a woman and then afterwards you're like, oh, who am I now and what am I? What do I want now? But you've got other sort of priorities that are coming through, and so it's been quite a complicated journey for me.
Speaker 2:It's not been an easy one, and I'm finding that at this point I'm actually going back into a lot of my past experiences to do the healing work and as I'm doing that, I'm starting to open up, but it's quite slow. You know I'm not rushing out in any way, shape or form, but it's. It's leaving me with more questions and answers right now, but I know this is part of my. This is like the, this is the chapter for now that I'm working on, because I was always quite embodied as a woman and I always had, you know, a strong, um sexual power inside me, and that wasn't necessarily a safe thing, as I've learned.
Speaker 2:So I want to make sure that I can be safe within myself. I can feel my sexual power, not shut it down, like I have done in the past, and just like. Let it inform me a little bit. And it is our second chakra. So you know, this is, if we are not connected to it, we're not connected to our, to also the money state as well, because that sits in that same space. So if we're working through the body and we've got our energetic areas, we want to make sure that they're all healthy and that we're, you know, working within ourselves in the right way. I don't want to make this too complicated, but it's, um, it's a really big one for me. What about you?
Speaker 1:yeah, the, the whole sex thing, um is. It does change as you go throughout your life and due to your experiences, and I remember, after I had my first child, um, I basically went celibate for 18 months, um, not consciously, but I literally felt like my body was a in recovery, um, but b its purpose was about feeding my child, um, uh, you know, I was there to produce milk. My, my boobs were food. They were not play things, and I didn't feel at all sexual or I had no urges, and it's because I felt like my body was for something else. Now, that's not to say, though, that I didn't want intimacy, and so there was a lot of intimacy going on, and especially when you are with a partner and you've been through this life changing thing together, and it really does bond you.
Speaker 1:So that was a really interesting state, that, actually, who am I if I am not this sexual creature? And I actually just worked out well, I'm just me, you know, and I'd already, I think, throughout my teenage years and my 20s, because I had a lot of sexuality and a lot of sensuality. It kind of became part of my, my label of who I am. This is part of my identity. So when that goes, you have to find another part of yourself. And it's all in there. Because there was a time in your life when you weren't a sexual creature and you were still whole and beautiful and wonderful.
Speaker 1:And then again, as I've got older, when I separated from my latest relationship, people kept saying, oh, you need to get back out there, lucy, get on the dating apps, just play around a little bit.
Speaker 1:And I was like, oh, I can't think of anything worse about just giving it away so freely because it just didn't feel natural to me. But on the other side of me, there was all these, um, these belief systems that I had from my very young age. That actually is mine, and if I want to express myself, um, it doesn't matter whether I have 10 partners a day or one partner for 100 years, it doesn't matter, it's about 10 partners a day or one partner for 100 years, it doesn't matter, it's about my self-expression. So all of these feelings came up. So I think it's really important for us to go and have a look at what does our sexual power mean to us? Not about what society expects from us, about what does it mean to me? And I'm right there with you I don't know the answer for me right now no, and it's about the exploration and the inquiry, isn't it?
Speaker 2:and actually unfold. If it feels like something that you want to do, I feel like there's a right space and right time, almost. But I think shutting down parts of our bodies is not a good idea, because we want our bodies to be speaking to us, letting us know, you know, who are the, who are the safe people around us, because our bodies will give us cues. I mean gut instinct. You know we talk about the gut all the time. We talk about the space of intuition. If we shut down even an element of something inside us, then we, the body, will just shut down and I feel like then we're not getting that valid information that we need, um, to be safe in the world, but also to have fun and to feel abundant. You know, I feel like the space of abundance for me sits in the womb space, and it's where we birth ideas as well as in the brain, so there's just so much juice in there and and right space and time is always important because you don't want to rush out and start doing something that you're not ready for, which is what you knew. You know there was a wisdom in you that said, actually, I don't really want that right now and this is my choice. And, interestingly, I was thinking about when I, when I had Catalina, and you know I got the baby books, like what to expect in the first year and all of that stuff.
Speaker 2:And, um, you know, reading this baby book and it's like round about this time is when people start to have sex again. And I am not joking me and my group of mums, every single one of us went out with our partners and had sex because the book tells us to do it, and we were like, yeah, well, you know, everything seems to be intact. You know what I mean? Like blah, blah, blah, having these conversations, because at that point we were all like the veil was down and everyone was talking. We were just talking about everything. You know, it was brilliant because there was no barriers, because we just had children, and you just talk about everything. As women, after you've had a child, generally speaking, you know there's like no taboo subjects when it comes to your body, um, so, you know, women together all talking about this, and I was like I went away and I thought I don't know if I've done that right. Actually, that doesn't feel very honoring to me because a book tells me to do it. I'm going doing it. Um so when you listen, back.
Speaker 1:You just think how ridiculous is this so ridiculous?
Speaker 2:and I can laugh about it. You know, and and I can laugh about it because I've got a good sense of humor and I like to think, you know what, this is not something to worry about too much, but there is an underlying current with it that I go, I made a decision, you know, fairly soon after that, that I would only, you know, get intimate with my husband and have sexual so I wouldn't say sexual relations, but I sound like Trump when I say that. Or was it Clinton? One of the? Yeah, it's Clinton.
Speaker 2:Um, you know that I, that I would only want to do that if it felt like I wanted to do it, and so we have agreements around things like that in our relationship.
Speaker 2:You know he's very patient, but he'll say he wants me to want to, not because I think, oh, you know what day of the week is it? So it's, yeah, it's an interesting one, isn't it? Because I feel like when we connect to our you know sex power, you know how that feels. At the same time, you are seen by others, like I've walked into rooms connected to that energy and the impact has been great in terms of like swarms of people around me, men and women um, because they feel they can feel there's something inside of me that's very powerful and it always surprises me. At the same time and I'm kind of wanting to balance that out a little bit, because I don't want to be I want to be visible in the world. You know doing my thing, and I also just want to make sure that I'm taking care of myself properly as well, and it's all a bit confusing still.
Speaker 1:I think what something that's really important is to know that books, movies, songs, all of that kind of stuff is based on one person's view of their own sexuality and each of us has a very personal journey. And hopefully you go out there and find a partner who is in the same space as you. And it brings me back to I was at Amsterdam Pride in 2022 and they had the human library there and I was at the the time um very much in my celibacy era and I went and hired the human um for half an hour, who was in purely polyamorous relationships bisexual as well, but polyamorous and we were really going into the curiosity with each other about, well, you know, we are on very different spectrums and what's it like for you? And she absolutely said that. She said she was on the spectrum of autism and she just couldn't understand the concept of one person being with one person and only one person. It just couldn't fit right in her brain and it actually made her feel more herself to be in relationship with two, three people at the same time, and sometimes they were people who she'd be with for two or three years, but she would have other partners who would be just for a few weeks or a few months, and and that's what gave her power and it wasn't power over them, it was power over herself.
Speaker 1:And I explained to her that that was exactly the same process I was going through in my celibacy decision, because actually I wanted to find the power of me within. Who am I without sex being part of my story? And it was just fascinating and what we actually came to learn was that actually we're all trying to figure out who we are and where our power is, and we're not there to judge. So, yeah, the books are great if it opens up a thought process, but the advice I guess I would give anybody is before you go and do that with your partner, your husband, reconnect is actually do the intimacy steps first. Maybe go date and flirt with each other, stroke each other's hands, give each other a massage. Don't just jump straight into bed, wham bam. Thank you, ma'am, because that's never going to be sexy. That's not about intimacy, that's just literally, yeah, having it off, um, which is why it shows my age there, but nobody ever really feels good about that, do they, you know?
Speaker 2:and well, I think there's horses for courses, isn't there? But I, it depends, doesn't it? I mean, it's all, it's also dependent. But I agree with you on the intimacy side 100%. Like we want to be seen by each other, we want to be upheld, we want to be honored, and I think you, we want to be upheld, we want to be honored, and I think you know, I think that's probably different from, maybe, the masculine side of things, but I know that you know, which also wants to be his thing, would be to be appreciated.
Speaker 2:We all want that, because that's when you actually sort of step into the relationship in a different way, as opposed to just like the primal body, into the relationship in a different way, as opposed to just like the primal body.
Speaker 2:You know, and this is where we go from like different levels, like I have this basic primal need that you know just needs to be done, um, and then back out into the world again, and I don't feel like that's really the way that we are as women generally speaking, and, like I say, there might be women out there that are like, well, I don't, I don't play into that, because is that a story that we tell ourselves? But for me. It's certainly true that you need to feel there's an element of connection there. Otherwise it feels quite lonely, quite empty. There's a seeker in me that is seeking for you know, I always get the same word and it's honoring and cherished. You know, these are like that's what I'm looking to feel, as well as, like you know, the joy of you know being with somebody in a way that feels like great on you, in your body well, I think there's the recognition there that, um, that when you orgasm you have, um, a release of oxytocin.
Speaker 1:So once you've got this feeling of connection that the experience has just given you, you just shut the door and say bye. Then you've kind of like you, you've dishonored this hormone that's floating around your body, whereas if, even if you just stay for a cuddle, you know, just for like a couple of minutes until it washes out, that kind of like feels like it's honoring the space. And I guess that's why I was saying that literally just the one band, thank you, man. Then leave it, just doesn't hold it.
Speaker 1:And there's something that came up when you were talking that reminded me. I don't know where I heard it or where I read it years ago. That stays with me and it says that for a man it's all about the external. You know they get an erection, it's all an external act. But for a woman it, you know they, they get an erection, it's all an external act. But for a woman it has to go internal, because that's just the dynamics of how we're made. So already it feels like it's a lot more of an intimate thing because it's something that has been invited within me rather than outside of me, and it's just something that kind of really made sense to me. It might not make sense to anybody else, but it stayed with me for as long as I've been on this planet since.
Speaker 1:And it does actually then speak to that piece about power. Just to talk to the money and power element of that triangle, you know the sex part is very much about power, but it's also about relationship and intimacy. So when I think about the money power element I struggle because the money part is kind of like new in the sense that there was a whole world that existed before money was even invented. So it's like this is a modern part of the triangle. Before it might have just been, you know, the power and the sex and maybe spirit may have been the other piece and money has replaced spirit. So just wondering what your thoughts are around that yeah, well, it's currency, isn't it?
Speaker 2:it's like a way to sort of like exchange, you know, and I think maybe in the past it was like, well, here are some eggs and I'll take some bread from you, and you know it was a kind of complimentary thing. I feel like the way that things have gone is much more about you know. It's like who's got the power, who's got the money. It's like would have been who's got the fire in the olden days. You can light the campfire. You know that would be where the power would sit. So it's just a different way of communicating power for me and I feel like, um, I feel like with money there's so much that gets wrapped, like all of them, there's so much that gets wrapped up in there in terms of our belief structure, like whatever we believe money is. Then we're going to have a relationship with money that follows that. And you know, I mean personally, for me there's certainly.
Speaker 2:I mean I grew up in a Catholic background and there was certainly a lot of thing around good and bad and evil, and um, you kind of had to help everybody else first, and you know that's the doctrines that get passed down. And my mum said she went to church the other day and she said the priest was saying I was telling a story about you know how there was a rich man and he was a really good man, but when he went to heaven he was told that to get to heaven he would have to give everything away. And he couldn't do it. And I went oh, that deserves the story really well, doesn't it? Really, in terms of, like, you know, put your money into the offer tree. I just, you know, my whole thing is you can do so much great. You can do so many great things with money. You know, and really really support and help and, you know, create organizations that are giving a lot to the world. And you can buy, you can buy land and take care of it, because we need, you know, like nature, to be abundant. Um, there's lots of businesses out there that are doing lots of non-for-profit work, and also businesses are making a profit, but they're doing great things, and I feel like money it just gets wrapped up in this sort of like negative connotation and I feel like if you're working, you should be paid for it.
Speaker 2:So that's always one of the things that I do, but I've certainly not always had that view. I know, when I started coaching, charging people like money scared the heck out of me because I'd gone from a really good salary into like starting over and all of these like taboos came up about money and about value and what my value was, and I didn't feel like as a coach at the beginning that I had value, even though everyone was telling me that the sessions were amazing, I was like scared to like, I'm scared to put price like decent prices next to it, and it took me a long time to actually be able to do that and to be able to honor the work and and I still struggle with it sometimes I'm still like, oh, is it too much? Am I charging too much? You know, and I go into this too much, too little thing, and it can be quite again like I find all these if there's a lot of energy there, then it can be confusing. I don't know about you, what about you?
Speaker 1:oh, yeah, I, um, I have a, an image on my vision board that's in front of my desk and it's um. It's been up there ever since I started my coaching business and it just says money serves my highest power. And it was just this reminder, because I went through the whole thing with you about. You know, shall I just charge 20 pounds a session, you know? Is that enough? And then I thought, no, I have got so much wisdom, I've spent so much money and time in gaining these skills and investing in myself, and the work that I give out is actually doing good in the world, it's serving a purpose. So therefore it feels like a good, energetic exchange.
Speaker 1:I came from a background of um, the, the boomers, where I guess they grew up in council houses and then they went into the world and um bought properties really cheaply, but they worked and grafted, and now you know that they are living in an abundant life, but they've still got this scarcity mindset and so you've got to save everything, save everything.
Speaker 1:And so almost um having money just felt always a bit distasteful, and I remember hearing comments about oh, they're just a bit flashy, aren't they? Oh, look at them spending all that money on xyz. So it was almost seen as a negative thing, and so I've always been quite humble about money and so so the exchange that I've had to do, or the healing that I've had to do, is understand where do I get value in my life and am I willing to spend the money on that? So, for me, travel and having experiences is the thing that gives me real value in life. So, therefore, spending money on holidays or going places and having a weekend away, that feels like a really good exchange, whereas buying a new sofa doesn't give me any joy, so I'm not going to go and spend a fortune on something like that. So, again, it's all about the old-fashioned exchange having money just for the sake of money and storing it away if you're not going to do anything with it. I don't get that. I wouldn't be a very good billionaire, I know that much.
Speaker 2:The currency of money. The idea is that we, if you're going to be in a positive energy, you have to give energy out and then also be willing to receive it back in. And I feel like in the work that we do, if we don't charge the right amount, then people don't take it seriously and the value is like it's like a friend of mine she'll always say to me oh, it's reassuringly expensive, and I love that term. It's like to be reassuringly expensive, it's like the price is it's good enough to reassure people that the work is also quality, and I'm a big believer in that. And at the same time, I don't ever want to take the mick out of you know, because I see some coaches out there charging 10,000 pounds a session and I just I can't, I just can't.
Speaker 2:I know that the work that we do changes people's lives, but there's just a point where I go that I am like that's just ridiculous. Sorry, that's ridiculous. For one session, for one hour with somebody, um, I don't care what add-ons you might throw in, but it feels crazy to me. So it it's all about that level of balance, isn't it? And I think it's the same with money Like money comes in and it's like how do I honour this, how do I honour the relationship of the money? And I think that's what we're saying, that all of these areas are about relationship and how do we, you know, honour it? And I have to work with that because I'm someone who just likes to give, so I'm like yeah, I mean, yeah, let's, who can I take care of?
Speaker 2:who can I give that to? And it's like you know, I'm learning as I'm getting older. I'm like, hold on a minute here. Like, what part are you giving and where are you giving it from? Like I love to give and I'll always be generous, but I think sometimes it just gets a little bit, you know, messed up inside me that I go from an automatic place as opposed to honoring and being like, if I do want to share, what does that look like? And does it always have to be about money? There are other ways that we can share.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've got to say, the um, the one area that money seems to cause one of the biggest issues. Well, there's two areas. One is, as you talked about, work, um, and people asking for pay rises or not being paid fairly or equitably. So there's that aspect. But also in my work as a relationships coach, money seems to be the. It's almost like the outward reflection of the equality and fairness within a relationship, and so people often come to me because there's a money inequality issue, but it's not actually ever about the money.
Speaker 1:It's about the lowest surface things where actually it's about respect, or it's about the roles that people are playing, or somebody not feeling appreciated for doing the life admin or the party planning or the Christmas planning, and the only thing that is really focused on is well, I pay 50% of the bills, or I pay for the holidays and I bought the car, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 1:So money becomes then a currency of who's more powerful in the relationship, and I have to just remind people that you are in relationship with one another. You've signed up to be life partners. We really need to navigate this money issue because it's not really about the money, it's about something else, and often it comes down to a lack of safety or being taken advantage of, and that's the bit that. When we get to the real heart of it, that's when things start to shift in the relationship and actually money doesn't really become an issue anymore. Um, so I just wanted to share that with you, that money is not just about the sense of self. When you choose to partner up with somebody, money becomes a really big deal.
Speaker 2:But it shouldn't yeah, and it's about having the healthy conversations, isn't it around it really? Because it's like, as you say, like what's underneath this, like what, what is it that you really really want from the other? Um, you know, when I've had those, I've had to do that due diligence, work in my own relationship. When you know you start to think about getting married and having children, I just the only thing that I was really really after from Rich was the growth. And I said to him, like the most important question I ever asked him outside of, do you want to have children and get married? Was um, do you want to grow with me? And he said yes.
Speaker 2:If he'd have said no, I want to stay the same, I want to stay in this little bubble, I want it to never change. We would have had a problem. But he was like, yes, I do want to grow. And you know he has a he's, he has his own passions and ways of doing things and so do I. But there's just something in there and I feel like it's the same with all of these topics. It's almost like how, if it's not working, then where's the growth edge? Like what, what needs to be said, done, and what are we really looking for? You know what is the thing that sits underneath it that needs to be honored for to get back into alignment with someone. Because I think money comes and goes, doesn't it? It's like anything power comes and goes um, our sensuality, sexuality comes and goes, so we're kind of cultivating all the time, um, and just to almost be in the field or the energy of what we're talking about is one way to manifest it, depending on what you want. You know, like I kind of, we're kind of going around desire and we're going around power. We're going through all these juicy topics and I genuinely feel like often we don't ask for enough. I think that's what I'm sort of coming back down to, of just being like that clarity of before I go and have any conversation.
Speaker 2:I get clear, I sort of spend time within myself. I might journal, I might go for a walk or do whatever, find some time and space, or I might even sit with things like an inquiry question like what's my heart's desires is a great one, and then I listen to that and I'll see what comes through, and then I might go, try some things and I'll just go well, it wasn't that, it wasn't that. That felt really good. It was that. And so then I'm starting to go okay. So I'm getting clear about, you know, what my desire is.
Speaker 2:So then how do I push that out more for myself into the world? And so what are the needs? And then I get myself really clear about that and then I can start to have conversations. Like you know, I want to take a bit of time, more for me. So how could I do that? What are the spaces? How could I enroll Rich into that and what could I ask him, you know, to do for me?
Speaker 2:And so it becomes more about us. You know what I mean. And he'll have things that he might need. And if I can listen to him and find out what's going on for him and what his needs are and how I can support them, then we've got like a two-way conversation and street together. But I think when we're not, if you're not communicating within yourself and then you're not communicating outwards, that's when resentment you get. You get into resentment because you kind of you know it's sort of thinking, well, I want to say I want this, but I don't know, I'm scared to ask for it, um, so I'm just going to get resentful, you know, and anguish on the inside.
Speaker 1:I think the um, the power, comes into our um relationship with asking for what we need. And so I think and that comes very much from in childhood you had to ask somebody else for pretty much everything in your life, you know because you didn't have anything. So growing up you have to, you have to lean on people, and sometimes they rejected, sometimes they said no, sometimes they wouldn't give you what you needed, probably for some very valid reason, sometimes not, and you remember that feeling of rejection and disappointment or unjust and unfairness. And then you get to your teenage years and that's when you start vocalizing some of that and usually we acted out in very unhealthy ways, radicalizing some of that, and usually we acted out in very unhealthy ways. And so we either might become a bit deceivous, lie to get what we want, or we might act out in anger and rage or manipulation. So we start learning all of these coping mechanisms.
Speaker 1:And then when you get into a relationship and this could be a relationship with your boss, with your colleague, with your friend, doesn't matter when you're in relationship with somebody else these power dynamics always come into it.
Speaker 1:But who's got the power, who's got the ability to grant me what I need.
Speaker 1:And it's really important to come back to this self-power that I mentioned right at the start, where it's like I can give me what I need and it's not up to another person to give me that.
Speaker 1:And if you are in a to another person to give me that, and if you are in a relationship and you want the relationship to last, you've got to do exactly what you you said you know listen to what they need, listen to what you need and try and find a way that both of you get what you need, because as soon as one person starts putting their own personal needs first or giving their power away to somebody else, you're not in a true relationship. You're in a power imbalance and it's always going to get nasty. Something is going to erupt at some point, um. So, yeah, the way that you enrich, navigate this is beautiful, but you designed it right at the beginning and you keep checking in and I think that's really important for any kind of relationship check, check the wants, the the needs, the values, and also remember it's not power over, you're just literally two people choosing to be together.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:And it's like that, the shoulds, I think as well. I think we need to tune into the shoulds, like when we're in a relationship it's like, well, he should know, or she should know you know. All of that. That then is like just, it just makes you feel even worse on the inside, because then you get into the anger place like you should know that I'm doing all these things and therefore you should be coming in and blah, blah, blah and and it's like a passive, aggressive energy that comes with it. You know what I mean. And um, and that's really, really unhealthy, because unless you can, we can sort of say hold on a minute. This isn't necessarily working in the way that I would like it to.
Speaker 2:So what is my desire, what am I believing, what do I need and how am I going to have that conversation? And to be very clear in the conversation, because I think often what I know, see, have been in my past life as well, where I go into like I almost like go into like justifying or like explaining too much, rather than just making you know a request for something. I'll be like um, I'm just trying to think of an example. Let's think, let's talk about driving, because it's always a good one. I'll be like I really um, I'm I'm a nervous passenger, so you know I can get nervous.
Speaker 2:So, rather than just saying you know you're going too fast, like, please slow down. Might be like I'll go into a story like you know how nervous're going too fast, please slow down. Might be like I'll go into a story like you know how nervous I get when I'm in the car with you. Can you please slow down? And I don't feel, you know I had that really bad accident blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, and I'm sort of like, rather than just saying please slow down, it's as simple as that. Really, what I want to say is slow down. There's too much information in there and I'm trying to do it in a nice way, but my body is communicating from a like scared place, and so it's just awful, rather than just being like, please slow down.
Speaker 1:That's it. You know what? I think we we can probably do a follow-up episode to talk about, um, some of this asking for what we need, our desires in a really healthy way, with some practical steps, um. So I'm going to recommend just pausing it here, um, and having another conversation about this, because I think we we have we've never been taught the tools, but the the question that I think is the one that always hits me the most is always what do you want? Because I don't think enough of us ever really stop to think what is it I truly want? So, on that note, I'm going to end today's conversation, which has been fascinating, and I'll see you on the next one, where Karen and I will talk to you about our everyday practices. So thanks for listening and we can't wait to welcome you next time, until then use your voice, journal speak or sing out loud.
Speaker 2:However you do it, we hope you join us in saying it's a stir.