Say it Sister...
Lucy and Karen, two 40-somethings, are always chatting about life, and all that it has to throw at them, and now want to share their raw, honest conversations with you. Their journey of self-discovery and healing is something many of us can relate to. We all possess a unique power within us, but life’s trials often knock us off course. They have the tools, the courage to speak up and simply say it as it is, so you might feel seen, and understood and gain practical tools and techniques for self-discovery and personal growth during the changes we experience.
Say it Sister...
Asking for what you need part 2: Overcoming Fear and Embracing Assertiveness
Ever found yourself holding back on what you truly need? Many of us have faced that hurdle, especially in a world that often silences women’s voices. We kick things off with personal stories of overcoming the fear of voicing our desires and the beauty of co-creating solutions through open dialogue. By confronting the societal norms that keep us from expressing our needs, we uncover how self-reflection and prioritizing our desires can lead to fulfilling our dreams, no matter the size.
But what about those pesky negative beliefs that tell us we can't have what we want? We dig into the power of inner dialogue and the transformational support of coaches and therapists. It's all about shedding those deeply ingrained tendencies to say yes when we really mean no. By tuning into our authentic selves, we uncover the magic of making choices that truly serve our well-being and align with our deepest desires. We explore how understanding our genuine needs allows us to make more intentional and satisfying decisions.
Communication is another key theme, where we reveal the art of asking for what truly matters. Dive into the tactics of assertiveness in professional settings and the courage it takes to stand up for oneself. From mastering the art of framing requests to the necessity of setting boundaries, we share empowering insights on how to navigate conversations with confidence. By the end, you'll see how embracing assertiveness and clarity can transform interactions, leading to more meaningful and rewarding exchanges in both personal and professional realms.
Hello and welcome to the Say it Sister podcast.
Speaker 2:I'm Lucy and I'm Karen, and we're thrilled to have you here. Our paths crossed years ago on a shared journey of self-discovery, and what we found was an unshakable bond and a mutual desire to help others heal and live their very best lives.
Speaker 1:For years, we've had open, honest and courageous conversations, discussions that challenged us, lifted us and sometimes even brought us to tears. We want to share those conversations with you. We believe that by letting you into our world, you might find the courage to use your voice and say what really needs to be said in your own life, whether you're a woman seeking empowerment, a self-improvement enthusiast or someone who craves thought-provoking dialogue, join us, as we promise to bring you real, unfiltered conversations that encourage self-reflection and growth.
Speaker 1:So join us as we explore, question and grow together. It's time to say Say it, Sister.
Speaker 2:Welcome everybody. Welcome back to our amazing Say it Sister podcast. We're delighted to be here today and we're going to talk about the practicalities of asking for what you need, what we do to prepare ourselves for conversations, and also how we can take something that can feel quite scary and actually create a dialogue that can then be delivered out in a way that is so simple that the other person can really almost like hear what you're asking for and make an informed decision. So what's your take? Really almost like hear what you're asking for and make an informed decision. So what's your take on on asking for what you need?
Speaker 1:I've always been quite clumsy with it, I'm not gonna lie. Um, I usually, or in the past I've got to a point where I have to have this thing because I've been bottling up for so long, and so when I blurt it out, it's usually done in a clumsy way and I've bombarded the other person and and if I don't get the response that I want, I then act out in a really unhealthy way. Thankfully, I've learned some of the skills to go with it, but one of the biggest takes I have is that just because I want a thing doesn't mean to say that the other person or the people around me also want that same thing. So it's about an exchange, and the word I love is co-create. So how can they get what they want? You get what you want in a way that you both get what you want in some way. So that's where I'm at with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I feel like we're not trained to ask for what we want. So we, as women, our energy tends to be we put our energy on the inside. That's how we're trained. You know, girls are the good girls and they go off and do their creative writing. And then, you know, boys are taught to focus outwards and they're much more engaged in, like, the activities of things in a different way.
Speaker 2:And I feel like often we are having these conversations internally and then we don't speak them out and we're not even told how to and we're almost like scared of the rejection point, like we talked about earlier, which can keep us silent. And, as we always say, the longer you have things festering on the inside, it's going to come out clumsy because by the time you get it out, you're almost like past yourself anyway. So if we can be much more measured, more structured in the way that we go about asking for our needs, which includes getting clear on what they are in the first place, you know that starting point of what do I really, what do I really want today? What do I really want right now? Um, what's going to fill me most up? What is my dream? You know the questions can get bigger and bigger and bigger. But really we're asking about what do we really want?
Speaker 1:let's start there, then how do we even go there?
Speaker 2:yeah, how do we go there? And you know that self-reflection piece which you know we talk about leading from within ourselves. We're always leading from within ourselves. I just don't think we often give ourselves the space and time to go deeper in. You know, I mean you could sit and just write I want, I want, I want, and just you could probably feel I don't know.
Speaker 2:I reckon you could do a good page of A4 with your wants, just like anything. You know, cheese and onion crisps. I want, um, I want to have a laugh, um, you know they could be so small but they could also be big, like I want. You know, um, I want to do that yoga class. I want to, um, go see the Grand Canyon again. You know, like you can kind of go from there and it's almost just a way of just allowing the inner work to flow onto the page. So even just by putting it onto a page, it's already kind of coming out of you and coming onto the page, and then there's a space of editing and reflection and you know, what do I really want? What's possible today, what's possible next year, and we're always like fun, don't?
Speaker 1:we. It's. It's funny because, um, one of the techniques I've worked with um a lot of my clients is I ask them when they're like really stuck and they're like I don't know what I want, I don't know what gives me joy anymore or which path to take. I actually ask them, just as a piece of homework, just to write down 20 things that give them joy, and they can usually reel off about six or seven very, very easily, and often it's things like family or the work that I do, etc. And but then when you get to maybe number eight or nine, it gets really really hard and actually by hanging out in that space, it really forces you to connect with that inner side.
Speaker 1:Some sometimes it's things like I love walking on grass barefoot or I love just sitting peacefully and just watching the world go by, and it's the really simple things, because we often think that they have to be all of these big things, but whether it's starting with what gives your heart joy, what do you truly want, what makes you feel safe, all of those things, whatever the question is, and actually, yeah, get them out of you, because the process will help you figure out what is it you really truly desire and from there then you can get into the reality of well, how do I make that happen?
Speaker 1:But I remember putting one um on there that I love listening to live music and then I realized I hadn't actually been a listen to live music for probably about three or four years. And it doesn't have to be the big stadium bands. Sometimes it's just going and listening to a street artist and it gives me so much joy, so why don't I do it more? And that's when you can start doing the practical steps. What is it I can give myself permission for?
Speaker 2:yeah, and I think it's the feeling of the want, obviously I said before, like a packet of cheese and onion crisps. You know I might enjoy that for a couple of minutes and be like, but actually it's not really going to fill me up in the way that I'm really seeking. So I feel like you know, we're looking for the things that are going to give us a feeling of fulfillment in some way, something that sort of adds something a little bit of a zest to our day, and it doesn't have to be huge that you say you take the touch points in. And then was then for me. I always look at like, what am I believing about this need and about myself? And if I'm believing negative things, I've got work to do. And this is where the sort of inner work, the inner dialogue, comes in. And you can do that work with a coach or a therapist or whoever it is you know, and get clear on things. If there's things there that you know that you need and want, it might be a divorce, it might be a new relationship, you know. It might be to have a child. It could be many things, couldn't it Like we've got so many desires inside of us and not often not all of them get acknowledged desires inside of us and not often that not all of them get acknowledged.
Speaker 2:It's almost like there is a journey to be taken around each of your needs and your desires and then it's that clarity piece. But it's also about how do I make this happen. And if I'm not believing anything kind or nice, like I'm not worthy of it or I can't get it or whatever it might be, then there is a deeper journey that needs to be taken, and that's what I've learned to get to the beliefs and the mindset piece as early as possible so that we can actually go. Is this true? Is this actually valid? You know, does this have any place in my life anymore to think that, um, I can't have a loving relationship? Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:It's like, it's like weird stuff, isn't it when you see people who run these like patterns and they always, they always go out with men that are married or something, and this is just a random example, but that was like, oh, I've met somebody and you know, and this person is yet again in a relationship. So there's something in there that they want to meet somebody and they want to have a loving relationship, yet they don't believe they can find someone that is completely there for them, and so that belief becomes so powerful, um, that they it almost like a track, gets attracted into them, you know, and the pattern gets redone, reaffirmed, it gets strengthened in a way, and we want to start breaking those bonds of things that are just like oh, that's a bit icky, I have no, no space, there's no space for that in my life anymore yeah, and it shows up in all areas of our lives, whether it's our work, it's our family relationships, it's um the, the holidays that we want, the equity of um roles within the home.
Speaker 1:And I'm on a number of women's Facebook groups and it's almost like, time and time again, people come on to rant about something and what I'm always trying to do and I guess it's my coach training but I'm actually always trying to look at what is it that they're telling me that they really want, or what is it that they're telling me that they don't want. And we all seem to find it really, really hard to just express I want this or'm not happy about that or that is not serving me. And again, I find it incredible that people will go on social media, often under anonymous poster, and they will just do these rants and I'm like, well, that's never really going to help you, because then you're going to get about 20 000 different responses back that none of them will probably really resonate with you, um, and actually it's the person who you've got the issue with, that's the person that you really need to be having the conversation with um. So I always find that fascinating, but it's also really interesting for me as um, a, a woman, a podcaster who talks about women's issues, and to really understand what's going on in the women's lives at the moment. And the one thing I would say, more than anything that I'm I'm hearing, is women seem to be taking on so much and saying yes, yes, yes, yes to everything, without actually ever a saying no, um, in a skillful way or actually asking is this serving me? Do I want to do that?
Speaker 1:Because we are conditioned very, very early on to say yes, to be the good girl, like you said, and so, doing that piece of writing on a piece of paper, what is it I want? And also what's the outcome I'm wanting? So, yes, you might want that, that packet of crisps, but actually, what's the outcome you want? You want to feel satisfied in some kind of way. Um, sometimes you will reach for the biscuit tin, when actually what the outcome you really want is that you need a rush of energy, let's say, or even a glass of water, who knows. But going then into what is the outcome that I want and getting it clear in your mind, because often we'll ask for something or we'll say yes to something, and it's the wrong thing. So, once somebody is clear on what is it I want, need or desire, and what is the outcome I want. What's the next step? You would advise them or coach them through, karen.
Speaker 2:I would just feel it to feel that deep, deep part of them that is speaking, you know, and hold it, Like I was, like I love to like hold things and I'll say, sit with it and hold it and just get really, really into the feeling of it, because it's the feeling that is actually the really the truth of you. It's like there's a hunger inside or a thirst for something, and it's generally much more than what we think it is, and it's always speaking to us. And sometimes, you know, it's like the things that we wake up and the first thing in the morning and there's a thought there, maybe, and you know, when we're still quite vulnerable, when we wake up with almost a childlike or with we can't get out of our heads. It's like writing a book. You know the book keeps speaking to you. I feel like our true needs are the same. It speaks to us, but we've just disassociated and so when we go in and we're like you know we can, we can kind of try and put it into a word like it's love or it's peace, um, which does help, because then it's about an energy. However, it can shift and change, but I would just be like, get into your body feel into it, hold it and mold it and almost like you're making a beautiful piece of clay. You're like going to play with it and then start to express it. But I also think there's a massive piece, for the expression piece is interesting because I am doing my heart's desires work at the moment and so I, a bit like you, I'm a lover of music.
Speaker 2:So I decided I would go to a vinyl shop to be around records as a way of just being in the space of music, and so I took myself off to do it and I just was like I'm not enjoying this at all. I would have loved it before, but it didn't light me up on the inside. And it was really surprising to me. And there were two men in there asking me questions about music and stuff and I was a bit like I just wanted to be in my space with the vinyl and just flick through.
Speaker 2:They were just doing a really good. You know, they were just intrigued. They were like what music do you like? And I just thought this is actually, and I realized in that moment this was about me having my own experience being in the music shop with the records, just seeing what leaps out or if anything didn't you know it didn. It didn't matter if something leapt out or not. It was like I wanted to take a bit of a journey and it didn't involve anyone but the music and me you know, and that was really good.
Speaker 2:When I walked out, I was like I've learned something today that's different in me and this need for, like experiential things. But I feel like it's more of like my journey with myself and something that gives me joy, like music um, it might be nature, as opposed to having lots of people around me like it's a bit more. I feel a bit more like oh no, let me have the experience for me first, and then I'll invite people in um, which is not the way I used to live my life at all. So it's been really, really interesting and it's that place of visualizing.
Speaker 2:Like you said, once you know it and you've got your outcomes and it's almost like whatever it looks like on the outside world, then we can start to have a vision for something and we can start to see ourselves waking up the next morning, taking those steps towards that, whether it's asking for something with someone and having a conversation that feels really healthy. You see yourself having the conversation, you imagine what the person's going to say, that you want to hear back, and so you've got like a bit of an imprint. You know it's kind of coded in the body and then from there we've already seen the vision, so it's about stepping into it and even if it doesn't go exactly like we saw, we've still stepped into something and it becomes more real, you know. And then if it doesn't go to plan, it's like, oh, that didn't quite work, like me with the violence, we didn't kind of give me what I wanted, but I learned something anyway. So brilliant, let's take it as a win, you know. And then I tried something.
Speaker 1:I'll try something else yeah, it's um, when I do my assertiveness and confidence courses, um, I um share about um your assertiveness rights, and one of the the things that I encourage people to look at is if you say yes to something or if you try something, like going into the vinyl shop and it doesn't feel right. It's kind of almost like this feeling of buyer's remorse. You've done something and it just you're like oh, it wasn't that or I'm not happy about that. And part of your assertiveness rights is to say change my mind, I don't want that anymore. And it's been able to really articulate, um what it is you're after or how you're going to get there, and just saying, but it's not that or it's not that approach. And that's where I actually invite people to start doing whether it's a bit of mind mapping, brainstorming go in and then you can go onto social media and go and get this hive mind, because what we often do is we only look at options based on our own personal perspective, things we've done, we've tried before. So that's when you know what you want and you want to come up with ideas to see what lands and you feel in your body yes, that's a good idea, or all that scares me, but it excites me that that's when you can start gathering all of these different options and ideas and finding the one that really like, say, feel it in your body. You sit with it, like, yeah, that there's something exciting there and it's that. Are you going towards it because it excites you, or there's some joy there, or some curiosity, or are you actually rejecting it from a place of fear? I'm not good enough, I couldn't possibly do that. What would people say? Et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 1:And I always urge people to go on the positive journey because that's, there's something there that's compelling. And you know, you, you see a lot of people who have got their, their jobs as their calling, or they've taken this really brave decision midway through their life and transform their lives, and it's because they were doing the things that um, well, all the things that we were saying. You know, they've tried something new, they've gone after their passion, they've asked the right questions, they've gone and found the right people and suddenly they've got the life that they've always dreamed of, but equally the one that we then all admire them. So always go towards the joy, the passion, the excitement, and don't be afraid to to make those requests. So once you've got it clear in your head what is it I want, what is it I don't want, then you're going to have to ask people. You can't do it all on your own. You're going to have to ask people for help. So how do you go around asking people for help? That's in a healthy way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's so many great things that you've just said as well. Like you know, the facts of the matter is it's about us feeling, because I think we're so used to working from a negative or from being in survival mode. You know, that's the way that the world is and we're all programmed into that. So, you know, we don't know. I think I think we've just got used to responding to negative and I feel like it's really important to acknowledge the positive and even just to get used to the feelings of joy in your body, the feelings of peace in your body, as opposed to then rushing out. As opposed to then rushing out um, because what happens in the nervous system is that when we are dysregulated or when we're responding to you know something that makes us feel unsafe, or we're just in fear. Let's just say in fear. You know nothing's happening in around us, but we're in fear because it feels like a scary thing to do to ask for what you want and need, um, so the body will have like a response to that, because it's not the norm for most people. So then there's like the fear response and then it's like okay, so there's nothing wrong with getting into fear. It's about what you do with it. And so then it's like knowing what to do to sort of calm the body down, to regulate your heartbeat again, because the people around you that you're going towards to have conversations with will feel your fear and that will wake up. Their animal body and their animal body is now starting to get dysregulated. And so you've got two dysregulated people trying to have a conversation and when you're dysregulated or you're in fear and stress, you can't hear each other properly because everything's happening in your body. Your body's saying fight it, run from it, hide from it, freeze and pretend you're asleep. So there's no way you can have a conversation. You know from that place and actually you know the other person's getting triggered too. Even if they look like they're quite calm, they feel your nerves and panic is contagious.
Speaker 2:So it's like just that awareness of like whatever's inside us. We are walking out into the world and we have a space around us. It's like just that awareness of like whatever's inside us. We are walking out into the world and we have a space around us. It's our auric field, which is about five to six feet. So we've got these bubbles around us and it's our job as humans to do our own inner work, to do everything that we can to try and keep that space, you know, a level of calm, so that the people around us go.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love it when you're around me because I always feel calm or I always feel like positive. You're always, you know, smiling, and it don't mean we have to go out there, fake it's not being out there and fake if you are angry about something, you take that with you and you have the conversation if that's what you want. I think there's a place for that. But I'm talking about building alignment so that we can ask for what we need and be heard, because I think that's whatever we all want. We want to hear people, to hear us.
Speaker 2:So one of the things I do this is just like a very, very practical now is I tap on the karate side of my hand. You know, like you would do a karate chop like that, but you just tap on this and this reverses Do it with me, see how you feel, and what that's going to do is any negative thinking, anything like oh, I'm really nervous, I'm really nervous, oh, I don't know if I can do it, oh, um, oh, I don't know if it's the right time. Maybe I'll just go away and, um, I'll book another meeting or whatever. You do this and your brain washes it through, all that negative thinking. It just releases it out through the brain so it doesn't get stuck in the fight, flight freeze brainstem. So basically that part of the brain starts to go oh great, okay, and you've got space and then you can go and actually have your comment. It's so simple and if you get nervous in the meeting or wherever you are, you can tap under there.
Speaker 2:I tell people. You know I'll be like I'm doing this because it helps me, helps my brain, so I have no shame when it comes to, like, regulating myself. Um, but obviously in different environments we might feel like I don't want the person to know that I'm having to do this. So I understand, in the corporate world, you might not, you may sit and say this is, this is positive, this is mental health, right here in action. Um, and own it, which I recommend, or you might want to do it.
Speaker 1:You know more subtly, um, but it's just, it's about making sure that we're in the right place when we make the request and then you just get your little script together of what you're going to say, and you practice it I just, uh, I want to share a couple of secret tips, tips that, for those who don't want to tap publicly, one of the things that you can do just to calm your brain is just count every single toe that you've got, and you can do that right now and just because nobody else can see you doing that unless you. Well, even with open toe sandals, it's just such a subtle movement Unless you. Well, even with open toe sandals, it's just such a subtle movement. And the other thing you can do is just put your index finger together with your thumb and try and feel the ridges of your thumb, your fingerprints, because the mind can only really concentrate on one thing at a time. So, whatever your thing is counting toes, tapping, whatever it is in that moment that is going to help you just regulate. But I hope we have a world where we can just tap away and release what needs to be released. Wouldn't that be a beautiful world?
Speaker 1:But then, yes, you're going to have to say the words in a really assertive, calm, powerful manner, but what I really want to express to other people is that you also then have to be willing to receive the other person's thoughts, feelings, needs and desires equally and hopefully they'll be very aligned. Sometimes they won't be. Sometimes they'll need to have a pause and they might need to go to sleep on it or get some more information before they can say yes to something. Sometimes they might just say no, and so you've got to be able to find a way that you can then repair or navigate through that. But not asking for what you need or desire is not healthy, and so one of the things that I always suggest to people is to write down a little script or rehearse it in your head and go with a soft opening.
Speaker 1:So the soft opening might be hey, how are you doing? I need a little chat with you about something. Is now a good time, because time and place is really important. You need to make sure that the other person is ready to hear your request, and so, yeah, open it up softly, with a smile, warm intentions, and then you say this is what's on my mind and use I statements, I think, I feel, I notice, I need, I want, and then express the desired outcome, um, or why this is important to you. So this is important to me because, or what I'm hoping to achieve is, and express the outcome, and then just simply say something like so are you open to discuss that or what are your thoughts on what I've just said? And you invite a conversation rather than is it yes or is it a no. How do you handle it, karen? What words do you put around it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I tend to go into quite a scripty place when it comes to things like this, because I know that if I don't have a bit of an outline that I'll probably lose my thread. Um, I also I also watch the other person very closely when I'm doing it. So, like my attention. Um, I'm going to do my script in a minute, but I always have my like script ready. But then I will focus and I'm watching the body language when I'm making my requests in so that I can read what's really really happening. So I think that's really really important, because often we're so focused on the inside that we're missing the cues of how something landed with someone else and we can adapt then a bit more easily like, oh, this doesn't seem to be landing very well. Um, how would you like? Would you like to continue this conversation? Because you don't know what the other person's dealing with as well. You may go in for a conversation and they might have had some bad news half an hour before, or you know, they're just not in the right space, like you said. So we've got to be mindful of the other person and then come back and counter if we need to like, actually say to them seems like maybe this isn't the best time. Can we? Can we come back again tomorrow morning?
Speaker 2:But this is very important to me, you know, because I think ultimately when we go in with a request it's because it matters, and if the other person values who we are and our contribution and our relationship, then they're going to want to listen to what we've got to say. And if they don't, then it's kind of a red flag for me. Like I would be like hold on, do I want to invest in this or is it somewhere else? If it was a job and I wasn't being heard, I would definitely be thinking about, you know, going to work somewhere else. But let me go through my script. So I've literally just written these down because it's just easier for me.
Speaker 2:So there's different ways we can say things. We can say there's a business need, so we can make it into like the plural and say you know the business needs better marketing, for example. My request is that we, you know, work with a different company. Can I count on you to actually review my thoughts and ideas and then set a deadline? Can you get back to me? You know, tomorrow, you know whatever and it sounds quite like.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's much more general that one. It's much more um, you're speaking from the we tone as opposed to the I tone. It could be something about your team, or whatever it might be. Like we need. We need support with this, and I feel like you know it's very clear and and to the point, and so the person who's receiving the information can be like tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. Okay, yes, I can get back to you and you're watching them the whole time to see how it's landing. Okay, and then, if it was about me, I would say something like you know, I believe I'm a huge asset to this company. I would like to talk about a promotion or pay rise, or a four day week or whatever it might be. Um, what do you think? What do you need from me to make this happen, from what you've said? My next step is this can we agree to come back together and talk about it? And you might want to throw a salary expectation in there if you're asking for more money, like my salary expectation is, you know, whatever, whatever, based on the work that I'm already doing, because I think what I get nervous about is when you know like we often go for these things and then it's almost like, oh, we've got to do even more. But if you're actually asking for something that you feel you deserve, it should be based on what you're doing now, not giving more. Not, you know? It's almost like here I am, this is what I do. I would like to request this it shouldn't be about doing more, and I've had those experiences myself in my old corporate job.
Speaker 2:I remember once I went into a place and I went to the CEO. I went above my line manager and I said right, I want to be at this level because I'm doing all this amazing stuff. Um, I want to be at this level. I don't want to go through the. I don't want to go through the usual procedures. Can we just make it happen? And she was like okay, yes, we can make that happen. Procedures, can we just make it happen? And she was like okay, yes, we can make that happen. Um, I'll speak to my dad sort of guy that was above me.
Speaker 2:It went down like a cup of cold, sick in the end, because I'd overstepped my, I'd overstepped my rank, but I just didn't care because I was like I know what I'm doing, I know my value. Um, and then the whole thing we kicked off with HR and the. The guy who was my boss was like you know, you can't just go into the CEO and ask for what you want. And I was like, but I report into her as well. And actually I can, yeah, I can. I just was just like what have I got to lose? You know at the time what have I got to lose. And you know I laugh at it now because I just think I was kind of ballsy with that. I didn't even realize I was ballsy, I just did. I would just, if I felt so strongly about it that I had to feel that feeling of like this matters to me, then I would go and like go and ask for it and see what happened.
Speaker 2:You know what?
Speaker 1:about you? What are your examples? Uh well, it is interesting when I look back on the things that I asked for, that really mattered, um, and it never felt like an act of courage when I did it, because I've gone through the steps of this really matters to me. It's kind of like it's essential. I've just got to ask or I've got to make that request, and so I think going through the steps first really take away the fear, because you are totally assertive with your wants, your needs, your value, etc.
Speaker 1:Um, and yeah, mine was another similar one in the working environment and I hadn't got a promotion. Um, I can't even remember why, but I hadn't got the promotion. But, um, around the same time I'd got headhunted by another organisation and I went down and I was interviewed and hadn't got to the job offer bit there. But I went and spoke to my boss and I said look, I just want to be really honest with you. I am really disappointed that I didn't get the promotion that I went for, but I also need to let you know that I've been approached and I've been met them. This is the salary expectation that I've shared with them, and so I'm going to share that with you and what are you willing to do to help me stay here? And so then I put the ball back in his court and it was remarkable he, he just said we don't want to lose you. You are too much ingrained into what we're doing. At this time of change, we need stability. We will match that offer. He came back the next day and said we will match that offer, but equally, we will pay for you to go and do your masters in xyz. And so I actually got more than what I wanted, because I actually pitched it in a way that was really courteous, very truthful and honest. But also I just did it with, like I said, it wasn't courage, it was just assertiveness within myself. And that felt really good, because I thought why was I ever worried about doing this in the past? And the reason I was worried in the past was because of all those negatives that I'd allowed myself to think, but because I had something else validating you are worthy, they are willing to offer you this role, this money. I felt it, I felt this inner power. So, um, so that was one Um.
Speaker 1:There's also times where and this was like the end of my marriage Um, we'd had these conversations about how we're going to repair things and how we're going to get closer together, and it was really difficult because each time, I think in my heart I knew that we're saying these things because it's too painful to think of the marriage ending. Um, and again that buyer's remorse came in, so I knew it didn't feel genuine. And then we just sat there one day and I just looked at him and I said I'm done, I think we are done. And he just looked at me and he said, yeah, we are. And I think it just needed somebody to say the words so that then we could put an action plan, and that that didn't even take an act of courage either. It was just so crystal clear that we're done, this, this is done, and I don't think I could have found any other words because we were already so aligned in that moment. Um, so, yeah, all of those three.
Speaker 1:I think when, when you know it, you feel it, it's not scary it's just something you've got to do, something you've got to say, and then the next door opens and you walk through it, whether it's exiting something or welcoming something. Something will shift and change as a result.
Speaker 2:A hundred percent.
Speaker 2:It's like how many people leave, how many companies lose amazing people. You know how many people stay in relationships that don't work for them anymore. People. You know how many people stay in relationships that don't work for them anymore? You know, we know that, that that is true and it's deeply, deeply sad because it's it's a woman living a lie somehow and or a company just like losing out really, and it just doesn't feel like if we can just own our own desires, our own needs, you know and go through the process and it. You know, like you said, sometimes it's as simple as this isn't working.
Speaker 2:That's all that's needed you know say that and it opens up the conversation later as to the plan. Sometimes we don't have to do a full script, we can just be, you know, true with our words in that moment, because it's almost something just happens inside our bodies. Yeah, it just directs us in a different way and and and I think when you speak the truth like that I mean it was as truth sets you free it can be hard to speak the truth, but at the same time, when it is deep truth, something magical does happen, like the whole body just kind of goes.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, you know, that's exactly it. And you know what? I also find that we, we create, we dream up all of these different scenarios and actually, if we go into it in a really good, calm, powerful, but heartfelt, heartfelt way, you tend to find that people are pretty damn reasonable. And so I think it's the things that we dream up, these demons that we dream up about how the conversation might go. We take that energy in. But if we don't take that energy in and actually think you know, hope for the best, or trust this other individual or trust yourself usually people are reasonable, trust yourself, usually people are reasonable. But the final bit, I guess, is well, what if it doesn't go your way? What if they say no, or what if you don't get what you want? How do you deal with?
Speaker 2:that, karen. I just do my own due diligence, really, because it doesn't always go to plan, does it? I don't think life is meant to always go to plan, but there's enough. I think you learn just as much the other way around, in a way when it doesn't go to plan, but there's enough. I think you learn just as much the other way around, in a way, when it doesn't go to plan, as long as you don't take it as being, oh, I'll just stop, I'll stop asking for what I need or want. I think that's the, that's the.
Speaker 2:The danger zone, isn't it just to be able to say you know, it's like me, like sometimes things just don't go to plan, but there's always something underneath that, there's a learning, there's a growth edge, that it perhaps was spoken out of time or I asked the wrong person, or whatever it might be. So I just sort of tend to just say dust myself off, you know, and then just come back into my heart again and, um, that's it really. You know, I don't think anything at this point is going to stop me from asking for what I want, because it's, it's in me now and I'm just not prepared to. You know, for me, like I've got this saying here next to me and it's like. You know, a true feminist is a woman who speaks her truth. That includes the things that I need, you know. So I will never, ever shut my voice down, ever again, and I'm, I am 100% sure from that. Um, you know, and I'm living that every day, even though it's deeply uncomfortable sometimes. What about you?
Speaker 1:yeah, I think there's something there about knowing what is a hard no or a hard yes and knowing what boundaries there are. And so if there is a a hard no or a hard yes or a boundary that cannot be crossed, then it's OK to almost demand it. But other than that, maybe it's just a request. And so if it is a request and the other person doesn't want to take you up on that request, then it's almost like just keep it a little bit light and keep searching. You know, there might be another key to the door. It might be that actually try again in a month, or maybe you need more information or you need to prove yourself in a certain way before you try again. So it's kind of like just just pause, restock exactly what you're saying.
Speaker 1:But sometimes it is, it's the whole cup of tea thing. Sometimes you can just can just say no, I don't want to do this, or no, um, will you stop doing that? And it's just a hard border. And so it's just knowing in yourself what limits you're gonna you're gonna go to, because sometimes you will have to leave, leave that company, leave that marriage, leave that friendship, um, or just leave that room for that moment because it's a hard no for you. So I guess that's the area that I don't want it to be the good girl like oh, just make a request and just see what happens, because sometimes this is too important to literally say I need this or this is too important. So it's that whole seesaw again, isn't it? Be the the good girl, but also know your boundaries.
Speaker 2:It's a difference between saying will you versus you will, so you will is the dominant force that's inside us when we say, like you will move away from me right now, that's not a request, that's a demand. Yeah says will you take catalina to swimming today? That's a request and I think you know it's quite uncomfortable to say you will, because I think we've all been trained to say will you? Yeah, will you consider you know my request?
Speaker 2:Actually, I think as women, we need to be, um, practicing a little bit more on the inside of like those like statements that say you will do this, because that's when you become, like um, a good dominant um, you know you can get into the energy of that. I mean, we could open up a whole different topic here and I'm mindful of that, but I think that's an interesting thing is what you're talking to to just play with those, the moments when we want to say you will and the moments when we say will you, and just keep using them, because I think there's a lot, there's a really interesting tension in that, um, because we definitely need to know the times when we say you will well, that's for another topic then.
Speaker 2:Yes, maybe another one we can talk about dominance and submissiveness and all of that, which is again fascinating, uh, conversations to be had. You know time to sign off, I think so. Thanks, I've loved it. Thank you, lucy. Thank you for being here. Thanks to everyone who's listening. We are um learning as we grow and go, so we are just deeply grateful for everyone who's here with us today and we hope we've helped you to really get more clear and to take some space and time for your own needs and hopefully put some new positive energy into your life.
Speaker 1:You've got this. So thanks for listening, and we can't wait to welcome you next time.
Speaker 2:Until then, use your voice journal, speak or sing out loud. However you do it. We hope you join us in saying it's a star.