Say it Sister...
Lucy and Karen, two 40-somethings, are always chatting about life, and all that it has to throw at them, and now want to share their raw, honest conversations with you. Their journey of self-discovery and healing is something many of us can relate to. We all possess a unique power within us, but life’s trials often knock us off course. They have the tools, the courage to speak up and simply say it as it is, so you might feel seen, and understood and gain practical tools and techniques for self-discovery and personal growth during the changes we experience.
Say it Sister...
Embracing Crossroads: Harnessing Hecate's Power of Choice
Have you ever stood at a crossroads, feeling the weight of choices and the courage needed to make them? Join us as we channel the power of the ancient goddess Hecate, exploring the pivotal moments that shape our lives, particularly during the transformative phase of midlife. In this episode of Say it Sister, Lucy and I, Karen, open up about our own experiences navigating these significant transitions, underscoring the significance of patience, intuition, and heartfelt decision-making.
Midlife relationships can be complex, influenced by cycles both external and internal. We share our insights on the importance of expressing dissatisfaction early, embracing change, and the profound growth that can ensue. Through candid personal stories, we reveal how speaking one's truth – whether calm or intense – can lead to more authentic and fulfilling connections. Our discussion also touches on the ongoing journey of harnessing the dual energies within us and the transformative potential they hold.
Ever found yourself stuck in a toxic situation, unsure of how to proceed? We dive into the empowering choices and self-awareness needed to navigate life's negative spaces. Learn from our experiences on the significance of listening to intuition and understanding bodily responses to challenges. A story of clarity in a toxic relationship highlights the power of summoning inner strength at crossroads moments. We also explore the liberating impact of spiritual awakenings and the necessity of shedding emotional baggage, all inspired by Hecate's guiding presence.
Hello and welcome to the Say it Sister podcast.
Speaker 2:I'm Lucy and I'm Karen, and we're thrilled to have you here. Our paths crossed years ago on a shared journey of self-discovery, and what we found was an unshakable bond and a mutual desire to help others heal and live their very best lives.
Speaker 1:For years, we've had open, honest and courageous conversations, discussions that challenged us, lifted us and sometimes even brought us to tears. We want to share those conversations with you. We believe that by letting you into our world, you might find the courage to use your voice and say what really needs to be said in your own life.
Speaker 2:Whether you're a woman seeking empowerment, a self-improvement enthusiast or someone who craves thought-provoking dialogue, join us, as we promise to bring you real, unfiltered conversations that encourage self-reflection and growth.
Speaker 1:So join us as we explore, question and grow together. It's time to say say it, sister. Welcome to week three of the goddess month. This week we are going to explore those crossroads that we often find ourselves on. They can happen daily. They can happen at monumental times in our lives where we are hesitant, we don't know which path to take, whether to go forth, take sidewards or literally just stay still. Each option will take us somewhere new. It will mean saying yes to something, but it will also mean having to say no to something, or even grieving something. We can be guided by fear, resistance to change, desire for stability. Or, this week, we are saying choose with courage and heart. So it's time to introduce you to the goddess of crossroads.
Speaker 1:This is Hecate, or Hecate as I like to call her, and she shows up in lots of different ways. She is an old and ancient goddess, and I've actually got her tattooed on my arm as the triple goddess ruler of Earth, sea and the Universe. The maiden, the mother of the crone. She governs the darkness and the underworld, accompanied by her hounds and I've got two. So often I summon that energy and she's asking us to question our choices and take responsibility. She shows us, our shadows, our darkness, and because, because of that, she has been adopted as the god of witchcraft. Now we all know that choice creates endings as well as new beginnings. Which one you choose? Which path to take, which way will you go? The choice truly is yours, and sometimes I do think we forget that we always have a choice. Sometimes you need to go to the darkness to really see the truth, and from this place, you can choose to fly free. So, karen, who is Hecate to you, me.
Speaker 2:It's this idea of crossroads. It's so powerful in my life because I feel like I'm at crossroads all the time. You know, times of choice can be difficult because we don't want to make the wrong decision and it's this idea of taking that leap of faith sometimes there's many choices that we can make as well, so that can be quite a confusing state and I feel like sometimes we can get into this sort of resistance to the choice. We put things off and things can feel really overwhelming and it kind of feels like we were in a no-win situation. So for me, when I think about her, I think about the courage, I think about the willingness to sort of not worry too much about right and wrong but to just follow what feels like the rightful thing to do. I'm also. I am actually a believer if you really don't know something, that you should wait a little bit longer, you know. So don't rush out there if you're not 100% sure. So then seek to. You know, get into the right space so that you can make a choice and make a decision, because ultimately we do have to move through thresholds.
Speaker 2:I think midlife is the ultimate threshold that we face Because you know, we've spent so much of our life, learning, having experiences. We reach this midlife stage and it feels like it's a huge threshold because we're actually passing through this gateway, you know, into our elder years, but we're not quite there yet. So there's a lot of preparation that's going on. There's a lot of like sensing and feeling into and thinking what's happening to my body right now, how do I feel right now, what's not working for me anymore. That's all part of this preparation. So when we get to the final threshold in midlife, we can just walk through. So that's what's coming up for me quite a lot, as always, but what's coming up for you?
Speaker 1:um, I've been at a crossroads in the last couple of years in terms of my career and I've sometimes been frustrated with myself for not having the answers or not having the courage to just say just pick this, just do that. And a lot of the people who are on my most recent trainings cohort they like oh Lucy, you're so brave, you just went out there and did that. Yeah, because I always have to have some action. But I haven't made the choice, I haven't firmly committed, and that is when I know something is telling me not yet, not now. And so, therefore, what I do is I go and get more information.
Speaker 1:Um, it might be like I said I went on a course, or I might go and talk to some mentors, I might talk to my coach, I might literally just sit with it to try and get the signals. What, what is it? That's not right, um, and so that's where I think I sit, in that darkness, and I allow myself to really be there, like what isn't feeling compelling, what doesn't feel safe for me. So it's not, um, through fear, it's a place of sitting and just exploring. And then I know, because it's happened many times before going back to Sophia with the wisdom piece that, when the time is right, there is nothing going to stop me. It'll be like you know, my hounds are dragging me to the place that I need to be, so that's where I use that energy and it's a new thing for me and it and it's yeah, it's strange, but it's this stillness. It feels like a little bit like hibernation. And you know, um, her car say she's all about the darkness.
Speaker 2:So I'm, I'm, embracing her and it's this void piece, isn't it? Because this is something that I have definitely struggled with in my life where I've been like I need to do something. I'm not happy with where I'm at, but if, but, it's like stepping into something that feels like a void is not. I don't think it's a natural human thing that we do. It's also not a nature thing as well, to be honest, because we want to hold on to what we've got, because we're scared if we let that go, then we'll have nothing. It's like let's just take, keep this with us, because we've got this in our hands when we know it, and we know it really well and we've, you know, got really good at dealing with it. However, it's not serving us to move forward. And it's that bit when you go, okay, I'm gonna put that thing down, I'm gonna leave it, I'm gonna, you know, walk away, and then what? What happens next? And I like it.
Speaker 2:For me, it was like I did a. I went up to the Kildare Forest, um, and I did like a couple of days of training with an elder you meant a couple of years ago and I was like when she said to me can you write down, can you do like a circle and put down what you're doing in your life and, you know, give it sort of a percentage type thing, a bit like a pie chart. And I looked at this piece of paper and I just I just went into almost like I don't even know what happened, like a whole shutdown when I had to start putting things on paper. And she was like what's happening to you? And I was like I can't think straight. Um, she was like, and I said so. She said just tell me what you're doing. So she started writing it down on this piece of paper and I was like I feel panicked. She said there's way too much on this piece of paper, number one. Um, she was like how much of this is filling you with joy? And I looked at it and I was like I don't know, it feels very heavy, hence why I was having this response. And she was like you know, you can say no to all of this and start again.
Speaker 2:And I was coaching at the time, so I was having this response. And she was like you know, you can say no to all of this and start again, and I was coaching at the time. So I was like you know, doing my circles and my women's circles and my courses. So I had a lot going on and I looked at this piece of paper and I just thought I have to let it go. I just knew instinctively that it was time, but the fear of doing it was was really, really huge actually, because I was like, well, I spent ages building this, so why would I let it go? Um, so I did. That's what I did, and she said to me you know, space is friendly, and I've never forgotten that line. It was like, yes, space is friendly.
Speaker 2:And now I'm somebody who's so much more spacious and so much more conscious and having a child has made me so as well because I'm like I can't put too much in, because I just don't have the capacity for that. So I'm very, very conscious about what comes in. Um, whereas before I was like, yeah, sure, you know, easy come, easy go, and I would just, you know I could, I can create things easily, so it's not an issue for me, but I create too much. So I think that was the thing for me. It was like to say no to something, to let go of things that you've worked hard for um to start over in a new guise. Yet you're not really starting over because you're taking everything that you've learned.
Speaker 1:It's all inside you that you know those you're building on yeah, and I think it's like I always see it as like the, the stratosphere that there are layers and you can't reach to the next layer until you've completed that one, but, yeah, you've still got all of the essence. Um, so, whether it's you know the, what's under the surface of the, the soil that you stand on, and then you build a house and then move upstairs and you know, it's that cycle that we go on and in the moment, well, I do a tarot as a daily practice anyway, and often it's just a card of the day just to give me some clarity, and then I journal around it. But when I'm really stuck in a void or stuck at a crossroads and I truly don't know which way to go, I will do a tarot spread and it always gives me great insight. Tarot spread and it always gives me great insight. And whether you believe in um, the, the tarot or not, um, getting a visual aid as information will always tap into your subconscious and tell you something or give you new information. But what fascinates me is that if I stay stuck and at this crossroads for some time and I'm doing the tarot, I often keep getting the same card coming up again and again, and it's only when I release or I'm ready to let go of something to move forward that that card stops visiting me, that I have no understanding of why that happens, but I just trust that it does.
Speaker 1:But I use it as a tool and just tapping into something. So what? You know, some people use pendulums, some people use oracle cards, some people just sit on a hillside and look out at the view. Whatever it is, it's about going into your subconscious and really trying to understand what is it that I need? And on that day it was a piece of paper and getting words out and that was the thing that. But you needed a guide to take you through it, didn't you?
Speaker 2:oh, and I think it's just like trusting that we know when something is too much, or we know when something's dead, you know like it's over, it's done. Um, we know that and it's sometimes it's like someone's you know, as a coach or a guide, like you said. Someone holds your hand and just say this. You know, this isn't if I'm having a response like that, where I'm totally blank and I'm like in panic. That's inside my body. Nobody's putting that in me, it's inside me. So therefore, how do I, how do I want to move forward? You know what, from what place? It's certainly not what I'm going for in the world. I'm going for spreading love, engagement. You know positive energy. So if I've got, if I'm going for in the world, I'm going for spreading love, engagement. You know positive energy.
Speaker 1:So if I've got, if I'm feeling that on the inside, then that energy is what's coming out of me as well, absolutely you know, and all your clients will have been sensing it, yeah and um, one of the things that also comes up to me with um, hecate, hecate is this, this culmination of the mother maiden crone? Or the universe, the seas, the um, the earth, and bringing all together that, knowing that you know it might be head, heart, um and soul, but it it's making these decisions, just not with one part of information. And I always used to say to my clients very early on that you decide with the heart and you plan with the head, because doing just tapping into one entity or one aspect of yourself is only going to give you one part of the information. You need all of your full self to come together to really make truly the best decision.
Speaker 1:And, as we shared on other podcasts about pivotal moments in our lives, they kind of happen after a period of being at crossroads, like is it this way, is it that way? Should I stay? Should I go? Is it this career, is it not? Until something happens and it you can't stop it, it just blurts out of your mouth and it's almost like when your head, heart and soul are all completely aligned. There is nothing stopping you Consciously, you know well, it comes out of your subconscious and you just blurt out the words. And that's definitely what happened with my two major relationships in my life. I didn't see it coming. Well, I did, but you know I hadn't planned today's, the day I'm going to end it. And you said the same about that relationship you had with that international relationship.
Speaker 2:You just had it one day and the words just came out and they said I know it's amazing, isn't it? This is the thing for me that midlife is bringing more to the forefront, and certainly it's Hecate energy of just saying stuff and then letting go. You know, as opposed to trying to explain it or rationalize it inside myself first and then to other people. It's just like just say it, say it, let go see what the other person wants to say back to you, see if they feel the same. Perhaps you are literally alleviating them from something that they have been scared to say for a long time. I certainly feel like I have definitely become more of that person in my relationships and sometimes the force of it kind of comes out of me and I just think, oh my god, and who am I? Who am I these days? And you know, sometimes I just it can.
Speaker 2:I think the thing that I'm learning to manage and I still have work to do is that it comes from, uh, more of a gathered place rather than an angry place, because I do have some. I do find that sometimes when I speak, I've just had enough, and so it comes out and the words would be the same. To be honest, it's not like I would change my energy with it, though, but the actual energy behind it is more like sheer frustration, um, and when that lands on someone, it's not nice, you know it's not a nice experience. So that's the bit where I am, you know, conscious working on um, and I think the only way you can do that is to catch it earlier, when that first feeling of frustration comes up. Something's just not working, and you know it's not working. Being willing to sort of be brave and say, hey, this isn't, this isn't working for me, is it working for you? And what I would like to see is more of this, less of that, you know, and catching it before it comes out as like. Will you just?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, and and you know, I noticed, um, in this midlife phase as well is that my reactions are definitely influenced by my emotions, which are definitely influenced by the the moon cycles and the feminine cycles that we go through, because sometimes I can just be that calm person and have that conversation, because all that, I think, is by having that conversation, it just takes you to the next crossroads and then you're like, oh, I'm further down this path Now, which way do I go?
Speaker 1:Whereas when I'm in that rage or frustration, I know I can feel it, I know what it feels like, but sometimes I can't control it. And, yeah, it takes you down a path that you're like, oh, I didn't want to be here, and whether you're in conflict or you created more tension, yeah. But the beautiful thing is when you recognize that you can always bring yourself back to the path or revisit the crossroads and say, ok, let's redesign this and go back there. What I see a lot of foolish people doing is just still plowing down that road regardless, because they can't admit that they got it wrong.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and you know what's interesting for me when, when I have that frustration and I move from it, people actually like it. This is the weird thing, because I'm quite a calm, gentle soul in my essence, but if I'm fired up by something, they're like more of that, please. And I'm like, really, and they're like, yes, more of that. That's when you are truly alive, so it more of that, like that's when you are truly alive, so it's. It's an interesting one. For me.
Speaker 2:It's something that I have to play with quite a lot, and to actually choose to be more dangerous has been something that I've been working with since 2015. You know it came out that because I am very much like a, I love beauty and I love softness, and I'm now doing all this with my hands and you know aesthetical, beautiful things and the good feelings but actually I've had to learn to be more dangerous, to be more like, willing to sort of like use my sword of truth, which is definitely the hecate. You know, it's like sword of truth here you go, deal with that. This is for you to work with me on, you know, and that fire is very, very powerful, so I'm constantly sort of like realigning with it. But what I don't want to do is to um, I don't know how to put it into words it's like I still want to be refined with it.
Speaker 1:I think is what I'm trying to say, like a level of refinement that I think that practice that comes with that um, that wisdom, um, because you'll probably make a lot of mistakes until you have refined it. This is how I show up and then, and there's there's something there about the hounds element, because I think I've shared. I've got two rescue dogs, um, and one always walks on the uh, the right and the other one always walks on the left and it's like sometimes I feel like this amazing chariot woman, you know, with my hounds guiding me and she. They both give me real strength, but one of them is just, and I see her as the light side of the feminine. She is all hugs and she's just delighted to see everyone, and she sees a bee and she starts dancing around it. And the other one is definitely the dark side of it and if she doesn't like something, she is going to snap, she is going to bark, she is going to lunge, and, and so it's about that balance and sometimes I find myself lunging, um, because I you can't say that.
Speaker 1:And I had an experience over the Christmas period where, unfortunately, um, a male in my social circle has been um, going down that toxic masculinity algorithm and was saying some very, very toxic things and I was with my daughters and he was just being racist and I was like I have a decision to make now about whether because I could feel the rage coming in and I was like I have a decision to make Do I stay silent to keep the peace at this party or do I role model to my daughters that it is safe to call it out. And I did. I said your language is racist. He's like you're calling me a racist and I was like, yes, because the words that you are saying are racist and I don't like them and I don't want them, are racist and I don't like them and I don't want them.
Speaker 1:And he walked out. He couldn't deal with my energy because I was so boundaried and strong that you know, and actually I think he thought that he could influence the room and I called him out on it and I, um, I don't know where this is going to take me from now. Um, I have thought about reaching out to him, to having a very open conversation and to see you know where, where this is coming from, or do I just keep doing my work and going forward? So there's another one of those little crossroads that come up all the time. Yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 2:And thanks for sharing that, because it's bringing something up my side, which these conversations always do. You know, I think I feel like there's a lot goes on in what's in, like the whatsapp sort of circles where you know things start to leak through and you know you negative comments or that kind of thing you know can live in the space, you know it's on our phones and we have a choice whether we want to participate. I've also learned that you can leave things without you know, just by saying I'm out of this space, you're kind of calling it out. I mean, there's a point in time when we can go hey, that's not appropriate, and I'm letting you know that's not appropriate. And there are other times when you can just go, just leave, get out of there, don't? You don't need to say anything because your absence will be noted and then the message comes through.
Speaker 2:So I've just recently done that in on a whatsapp group where, um, I could feel that, number one, I felt the energy was was becoming very negative and, number two, there'd been a couple of you know, like negative comments that were quite aggressive, um as well, and I just thought I don't need to be, I don't need to do this, I don't need to, and yeah. So there you go, I'm out, and I know that my my absence has been noted, you know. So the messages whatever the message they want to make into.
Speaker 2:It is up to them. But, like I've made my statement, without making the statement, because that felt appropriate in this situation, in other situations I'll call it out. But yeah, so we have so many different options in terms of how we want to respond to something that is not right. Um, when we hit that crossroads stage, and I think saying no, letting go, it takes many different forms, doesn't it? Um? So I just wanted to say that if there's anyone listening and you're in similar situations where you just think this is, you'll know it because you'll feel it in your body when the messages come through, you know that's the's the first sign. Number two, so then you're at the crossroads, and then, number two, it's like OK. So how can I respond to this? You might want to say something, you might just want to leave. Either way, good choices to make.
Speaker 1:And you know there is nothing stopping you leaving at that moment and then revisiting it when you're more centred and I've done that a number of times professionally that it is not the right time or space to name something, um, and I may have physically left, or you know, you can physically see my body language is switched off and then either later that afternoon or the next day, I've then addressed it with the individual and just said, um, I don't like that, or I didn't appreciate that or what was going on with you in that moment, just to start the conversation up.
Speaker 1:But again, there are so many options and that's why I said right at the start these crossroad moments happen almost all the time within your life. You know whether you've got somebody doing road rage in the car park or stealing your spot or being mean to your child or trying to draw you into gossip, and you get to choose. Do I do this or do I not, as well as some of the really big, big things. But what I also know to be true is how you show up in those small moments is a reflection of how you'll deal with the bigger moments.
Speaker 2:So it's almost like training. Of course it is, because it's what tell. Let's talk about actual examples of crossroads that we've experienced.
Speaker 1:Tell us one of yours. So I talked previously about a toxic relationship that I was in and I'd physically left the relationship well, the home, because it was too toxic. And for the month, while we were moving out, he refused to speak to me, refused to engage, until it was like on the very day we were leaving he decided that was when he was going to start packing his stuff. But, um, so it was like it was really toxic, um, but I was totally in um survival mode at that stage. And then, um, turns out that actually, once I actually did the deed and I left the home, he then started coming back into our lives and and so I'm like, ok, let's see where this is and what's going on.
Speaker 1:And after about four months, I was lying in bed next to him and I had this moment I woke up maybe about 2.30 in the morning with this crystal clarity of I cannot do this anymore. And it was that proper crossroads moment. Do I just lie here and wait till the morning, um, pretend and just see where this goes, or do I say something now? And I couldn't help it. I just said at that moment I can't do this anymore. And with that he woke up, he put his clothes on and he left and that that was the end of it. It was as simple as that. There was no turmoil, there was nothing going, you know, no arguments in the middle of the night. And I think it was because, again, I summoned that energy, that inner power. But it was that real crossroads moment. But the journey to that crossroads wasn't easy. It had taken months to get there. But at that crisis moment in the middle of the night, there was no I. I had absolute certainty which path I was going to take what about you?
Speaker 2:yeah, no as well. Just to say that you know, when you're in that place where it's so clear, people, generally speaking, just know to walk away, to give up, because there's just no going back. And I think it comes out of us and again, like the words that we use may be exactly the same, yet the space that we use them from changes how they land on somebody else, and I know that is true. You know like you can say something that's really harsh, but if you say it from the heart, they're just gonna, they're gonna feel the essence of the heart in the words. You know that's what you hope anyway, and nine times out of ten they do um, and if they don't, it's because they've got something running themselves. So you know, I want to. That's a really brave thing to do, actually, especially in the middle of night, when everything seems so much worse, because that's always the time, isn't it?
Speaker 1:when it's, I'm so proud of myself and that's where, when I was talking about courage, about sorry about wisdom, it's like I've been here before and, um, I've tried and tested and made mistakes and I know that in those really critical moments, I can advocate for myself and I can make decisions that are true for me and life is good, and so I'm really proud of myself.
Speaker 2:It was a pivotal moment that I'll remember for the rest of my days my experience is a bit lighter than that and, um, it was a couple years ago. I went off to do a training, um, and it was held by an amazing couple, american couple, called the Keeneys, bradford and Hilary Keeney. And well, I don't even know how to describe them, but they are the most amazing people who are scholars. They've written numerous books, but they wrote a book called Sacred Ecstatics. That was really I don't even know how to describe it and I'm not even going to try to that and that's what I'm deciding. But it's very much around getting into the heart, shaking everything up, um, you shaking everything off, in a way, so that we can be really central inside our hearts and let our hearts lead us, as opposed to our heads. So that's a very raw way of saying it. And I read this book and I did all the practices from the book, because when I love something, I really love it and I really, you know, like you read books, self-help books, and this isn't a self-help book, it's much more than that. I read this book and I'm literally like, right, I'm going to go do that exercise, I'm going to do that exercise. So I'm like reading the chapters, doing the exercises, and so I'm fully engaged.
Speaker 2:And then they came to Norfolk and so I went to this amazing place in Norfolk and, you know, walked into this room, didn't know anybody, and all these chairs were set up and Brad is a classically trained musician, like pianist, so he was on the piano, um, playing some things, and it was like beautiful, like the music was amazing and all of that. So I'm getting into my body a bit and then he starts to. They start to tell a story and I, like, looking around, everyone's got their eyes closed. There was no introductions, no, nothing. So it was literally like in this room and so I closed my eyes and I was thinking I don't really know what's happening, but I'm just gonna stay here inside myself and follow whatever happens the nearest I can describe it is like a visualization experience. But again, it was more than that and they started to talk about coming to a spiritual crossroads and this idea that you're at the crossroads and you have choices and you know, will you move through or will you stay? I don't even know what they were saying, to be honest, but I literally went somewhere, like I left my body, and I'm not joking, it was absolutely wild. I felt myself leave my body.
Speaker 2:I was sober, it was the middle of the daytime. I was like what, what is happening? And I just felt this feeling of intense love I've never. You know, childbirth is near to it, but it was beyond that, because it was just so pure and there was no pain involved at all and I was just in this space and I was like what's this? Like there's a part of me that was asking like what is going on here? Like's a part of me that was asking like what is going on here? Like that rational part of my brain was definitely awake, but it was more powerful than that. So it was like somewhere else.
Speaker 2:I just felt all this joy and my body started to shake. So my whole body was shaking. I don't even know what I must've looked like. It didn't really matter because no one actually cared, you know, eyes closed. I've never felt anything like it. It was beyond anything that I've ever experienced before. And then I felt I almost like felt my ego sort of kind of get really, really strong and sort of pull me back down. I'm curious to know where that would have taken me.
Speaker 2:But my body was so alive, you know, for probably about a year after that, and something was happening in the core of me, in my stomach, where I would think something and my stomach would like do something. That was like I can't even describe it. It was so powerful I can't describe it. I don't think I'm meant to describe it in words. It just totally blew me open, you know, and from that place, you know, I went off and did lots of amazing things.
Speaker 2:It was very, very, very powerful and the energy that was given out was very powerful and it was different to something I'd ever experienced before and I knew that, like for me, it was like this idea of leaving something behind and going to a higher place. If I could give it a term, um, that higher place is always going to be unconditional love, um, so I'll never forget that, especially because, you know, so many people go off on these spiritual tourism adventures where they take ayahuasca or they might do some mushrooms. Um, back in our day it was like, you know, alcohol and ecstasy, or maybe not mixed together, but you know what I mean. And and it was pure, because it there was nothing, there was nothing like that involved, just purely being in the space and allowing myself to be free, I think. So that was a that's a huge thing. It's something I'll never understand it.
Speaker 1:Um yet, it was a massive experience and it changed me, yeah wow, my um, my best friend, had, uh, discovered the work of the, the breath work, and she had a very, very similar experience and she basically described it almost in exactly the same way as you. But her conclusion was that she, during this moment, she had let go of something, that that all of that was just, it was like processing and getting out of her cells and out of her bones. And when she came back and returned to herself and she was like right, I'm ready to move forward now. And it's sometimes we do have to let go or grieve or say I am saying no to this before we can move forward, cause otherwise we are dragging all that baggage along the road, because otherwise we are dragging all that baggage along the road. And you know, I visualize myself when I'm feeling trapped or constrained, of having shackles on and I'm dragging the shackles behind and so, whatever it was that you had to release to be able to move forward.
Speaker 1:Once it was gone, wow, you transcended and I get a similar feeling when I do um some shamanic drums and it's, um, usually like the really deep drums that that deeper frequency does something within me and it and it always gets me incredibly emotional that something just bursts out of me.
Speaker 1:But again and you don't have to name the thing that you're letting go of, because sometimes it's just a release, and then again you're just free. And because sometimes it's just a release and then again you're just free, and then you're ready to let go and move forward. And when I talk about you know, when I made that crisis decision, it felt like I was letting go and that was like the end of that seven year cycle and I was ready to move on to the next one and and it took me somewhere completely different. And that is the power of going with your truth at a crossroads moment. And that's where um hekate is really powerful, because she makes you look at those dark, that darkness within, so that you can just release it or forgive yourself. Whether it's the guilt or the shame, whatever it is. You've got to let it go, to truly move forward. And I think that's why people are afraid to go there and it just keeps them stuck.
Speaker 2:And it's a cultivating of the feelings as well, because the reason I ended up going getting this book and reading the book and go into the workshop was because what started to happen to me was I was going into nature and when I would stand in nature, my body started moving, just naturally moving, and it was like whoa and I'd had I'd done a visualization actually as part of my CTI training, leadership training and it was like closing your eyes, being in nature and then connecting to different realms ultimately, and the same thing happened. So something was starting to move inside of me. Nature became this anchor where I could just go into nature, close my eyes, standing up. I would stand up and my body would start to just naturally be moved. I didn't feel like I was going to fall over, it didn't feel dangerous. It was like just organic movement and my body being held in something and responding.
Speaker 2:Because, ultimately, if you think about our bodies, we are not static, we are full of movement and we are full of elements and flow, and that's why sitting for too long and not moving is so bad for us, because we're not supposed to. We're supposed to be moving, we're supposed to be walking, we're supposed to be. You know, yes, we need time to rest, for sure, to recover, to then go out and be part of the world and the universe that we used to be. Now we're in little boxes, you know, stuck in, you know. Yeah, we're in boxes, aren't we? And so anything that breaks us out of that, that gets us back into our natural state, which is much more movement-based and flow, is going to be really, really good for us. So that's how it happened. It was like a chain of events that took me to this space, that opened things up for me in so many different ways, and I suppose there's a part of me that's like I want more of that.
Speaker 2:I want, you know, when you think Crossroads and you think of Hegarty, it's like it does feel quite dark. Um, yeah, she's not alone. She's got a walking stick and a staff that, like, keeps us solid. That's probably got magic in it, and the hounds around her, which are scent dogs, which I find in the path, you know. So they're smelling things out and they're guiding her.
Speaker 2:So she's not alone, and neither are we, and there is something in us that, if we just do one thing at a time, like each step on that crossroads, to take us through. It is going to take us somewhere. I'm going to actually show the picture because I have her here in front of me, you know, and it is the dark of night and it can be that would just feel a little bit scary, but in reality she's also surrounded by light around her. Surrounded by light around her, the light of the moon probably, and to not be so worried about it and to, just as to women who are now older, you know to say you know trust the process and trust yourself and trust your body and trust where it's being called, because that deep wisdom that's inside of you is going to break you free.
Speaker 1:And one of the other symbols that we haven't uh, discussed is that, um, the key is another one of her symbols, and in a lot of witchcraft, um, on the the night of hecate, um, you go and place an old key at a crossroads, um, but the symbolism of it is that you always hold the key I love. Whatever the path is that you're taking, you can unlock it, and we do that together soon, can we?
Speaker 2:it might not it might not be on the like day of like you know her official day, but we are meeting up this week. Um, bring two keys and let's find a place. Let's do that. I'm all about that. I feel like it's amazing to receive information. It's amazing, you know, there's so many things that you can read. You could go read sacred ecstatics if you want to know more about crossroads, or get some oracle cards. Um, you'll get. You know, there'll be books out there, I'm sure about you. I mean, there's a book that you've mentioned before.
Speaker 1:Um I was just going to share one that um for anybody that's starting on their, their divine, feminine, or um raising their frequency of their feminine energy, there is a brilliant book that I bought a couple of years ago called goddess wisdom, and it's got loads of exercises and it's in three parts, and and it's from a wonderful woman called Tanishka, and it's almost like an entry level version of how to get on this path, and it taught me so much because, although you've been working with goddesses for many years now, karen, I feel like I'm a bit of a newbie because I'm only just stepping out of the masculine energy world that I've been conditioned into, and so we're both at different points in our journeys, but we both know this innate truth, and so, yeah, go read, go explore.
Speaker 2:We're both teachers and we're both students and it's always going to be like that, it's never going to change. And I feel like for me, the key is to get practical and we're both students and it's always going to be like that, it's never going to change. And I feel like for me, the key is to get practical. And actually you've got that key again. Yeah, the key is to get practical. I'm going to keep saying that because, without doing the practices and the processes and like you know, like we're going to do, like, put the key at a crossroads, we'll mark out what crossroads we're on and then, because we'll get conscious about it, and then we can do that exercise, without doing that, you're still in the realm of the intellectual, you're still in the realm. You know it's not embodied, it's not coming through you, you're not physically doing it. So please, get into action. Is is my top tip for this. Don't just read it and then go that was interesting and then put the book down. Do something about it. What's your tip?
Speaker 1:my tip is um, pay attention to the the light and the dark. Um, just like my two dogs pulling me, um, they give me information. Uh, don't be afraid to look at what scares you or what stirs you, because that's the work you need to do to truly move forward ah, beautiful.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm going to keep this short and sweet. Wrapping up, I just want to say the key is to get practical. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 1:We've loved this conversation and we'll speak to you soon, so thanks for listening, and we can't wait to welcome you next time.
Speaker 2:Until then, use your voice journal, speak or sing out loud. However you do it. We hope you join us in saying it's