Say it Sister...
Lucy and Karen, two 40-somethings, are always chatting about life, and all that it has to throw at them, and now want to share their raw, honest conversations with you. Their journey of self-discovery and healing is something many of us can relate to. We all possess a unique power within us, but life’s trials often knock us off course. They have the tools, the courage to speak up and simply say it as it is, so you might feel seen, and understood and gain practical tools and techniques for self-discovery and personal growth during the changes we experience.
Say it Sister...
Valentines special: love, relationships and loving yourself first
This episode invites listeners to explore the multifaceted nature of love, with a special emphasis on the importance of self-love. Through personal stories and shared experiences, we discuss how self-love serves as the foundation for all other types of love and relationships, offering practical insights on nurturing it daily.
• Reflecting on the significance of Valentine's Day
• Discussing the seven forms of love beyond romantic love
• Understanding the importance of self-love as a foundation for healthy relationships
• Recognising self-harm versus self-love in personal experiences
• Exploring the balance between self-care and societal pressures on women
• Sharing practical self-love practices and their impacts on wellbeing
• Encouraging listeners to examine their relationships for authenticity
• Emphasising that self-love is not selfish, but essential for healthy connections
Hello and welcome to the Say it Sister podcast.
Speaker 2:I'm Lucy and I'm Karen, and we're thrilled to have you here. Our paths crossed years ago on a shared journey of self-discovery, and what we found was an unshakable bond and a mutual desire to help others heal and live their very best lives.
Speaker 1:For years, we've had open, honest and courageous conversations, discussions that challenged us, lifted us and sometimes even brought us to tears. We want to share those conversations with you. We believe that by letting you into our world, you might find the courage to use your voice and say what really needs to be said in your own life, whether you're a woman seeking empowerment, a self-improvement enthusiast or someone who craves thought-provoking dialogue, join us, as we promise to bring you real, unfiltered conversations that encourage self-reflection and growth.
Speaker 1:So join us as we explore, question and grow together. It's time to say say it, sister. Hello, hello, hello. It is the week of love. You won't have been able to escape it everywhere because it's that Valentine's week and, yeah, we're focusing on it after this crazy love hearted week that we've seen Even going to the supermarket. You can't escape it.
Speaker 1:But there does seem to be this single message of love, which is that whole romantic, those butterflies in your stomach kind of love, the Cinderella story version of love, and as somebody who is single by choice, it's like what's been going on the last week isn't really there for me and yeah, in a way I'm just ready to make it pass. But the truth is there are seven different kinds of love and the romantic love is just one kind. We obviously know Eros and the cupids out there, but also we remember that there are love of friends, love of family, love of our universe of humanity. There's the love of nature.
Speaker 1:There's also that love that comes through your hobbies and your passions, and today we are going to be talking about Felicia, or self-love, which to me, I truly believe is the foundation, because you can't really appreciate and fully be in the other forms of love. Unless you've got that love, that's starting within yourself. So we are saying self-love first, sisters, and that's where we're heading today. We're going to explore what self-love is, the foundations of healthy relationships, how practicing self-love can make every day just that little bit brighter. So grab a cozy drink, get comfortable and practice a little self-love as you listen to our conversation. So hello Karen, how are you with love right now?
Speaker 2:Oh, I think we need all forms of love to be really truly present in ourselves, and for me it's a daily return, moving from my head back down to my heart, because my head takes over and I have to kind of come back into the heart and listen to what's going on. So I made that my. That's always been my practice, really, and that's one that I return to often. When I think about Valentine's, my throat's getting a bit tight. When I think about Valentine's, my throat's getting a bit tight. When I think about Valentine's Day, I realize that this is like a time of like commerciality, and it feels like commerciality on steroids. Um, but I still like it because I'm very much a romantic and you know, I love the idea of love, whether that's newfound love, old love, whatever it is, whatever form it's in, I am on board with that. Um, so it takes me back to a time when I remember when I was a little girl and, um, I felt like you know, wanting to meet someone and even though I didn't really know what that meant, and watching things on tv and thinking, oh, you know, it's all about the, the generosity and the demonstrations of love. Um, I can see you sneezing. Bless you and remember my first Valentine's Day card that I got, you know, through the post, and I was still, I think I was still uh, I wasn't actually at high school yet and then my dad told me many years later that he'd sent me the card, you know, and I was like wondering who sent me the card, and it was all very exciting. Um, and there's a comment from my dad. And now, you know, now, looking back, I'm like wondering who sent me the card, and it was all very exciting. And there's a comment from my dad. And now, you know, now, looking back, I'm like how perfect was that? You know, like my dad sent me my first Valentine's day card because somehow he sensed that it was important for me to receive something, you know, and I think it's like the in the most purest form.
Speaker 2:It's that love that you have for your father when you're a little girl is so incredibly pure. In fact, we were talking about it earlier, weren't we? In terms of our relationships with our fathers and and being small and what that meant to us. And you know, now I'm 48 and my, my relationship with my father's taken a deeper, a deeper turn and a deeper connection, and so it's all kind of coming together on this day where I'm starting to appreciate fatherly love and um see my father for the amazing man that he's always been, as opposed to you know, my version of my dad. So that's, that's a good one. And when it comes to being married, you know, um, we have been together for quite a while now, so we always have steak and chips. We connect a little bit more um than we would normally do, so it feels like for me it's it's still an important day, but I'm happy that I've got lots of love in my life and I feel very grateful for that. What about you? What's your take on valentine's?
Speaker 1:um, it was my mother who used to uh post for cards through our door, um, and, yeah, I'll be always grateful for her just showing that little bit of love. It was, um, she was always quite playful, um, whether it was April Fool's Day or, um, valentine's or you know, the lead up to Christmas, there was always a little bit of fun and frivolity. So, yeah, I love that aspect of her. But in terms of Valentine's Day, I think I'm pretty skeptical. Um, and I think probably it's because my parents split up when I was three, maybe four, and they both remarried when I was five.
Speaker 1:Um, and although I grew up in a world where my mum and stepdad, who were still together, had a very loving relationship, um, and stepdad, who were still together, had a very loving relationship. My stepdad certainly didn't buy into the whole Valentine's Day thing not romantic at all but showed his love every single day for all of us. So I think that whole romance thing always felt a little bit shallow to me. Romance thing always felt a little bit shallow to me. However, I do have to also say that I'm now learning that one of my ADHD traits that has always been there is that when I make a friend, or when I meet somebody, I fall intensely in love with them very, very quickly. It's that passionate feeling of a meeting of minds and like they're going to be with me forever, and it's dangerous. It becomes intense, it becomes all consuming. It's all like focusing on the wedding day and not the marriage. It's those dopamine hits and those serotonin hits and, let's face it, those hits that we get in those early moments, they can be really addictive to people, which is why, when the marriage does go a bit mundane, when you start going into that deeper, long-term love, well, let's face it, a lot of people end up getting a wandering eye and it's the ending of those relationships.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I'm a little bit sceptical because it is just one small part of the longer relationship and also, it's not just about the beginning of the relationship, it's not just about one day per year. It's about being attentive and romantic to your partner every single day, and I think that's one of the messages that I want to give. But I'm also a huge, huge rom-com fan or any good story and movie that has this deep, enduring love. That really hits me. That's the bit that hits me hard. Just take the Notebook, one of my favourite films, and that is all about this enduring love, falling in love every single day. I guess that's why I became a relationships coach. But one of the other things that I which makes me a little bit sceptical, I guess is that I remember being at school and everyone saying oh did you get a Valentine's.
Speaker 1:Did you get a Valentine's? And it was so hyped up and I just remember sometimes it was myself, sometimes it was other classmates when they didn't, and it felt like the ultimate rejection of what's wrong with me. So, yeah, I'm going to stay with skeptical, but you are all heart and so yeah, with your heart's journey. Where are you at, I guess, now when we're talking about love?
Speaker 2:I have to do so much work within my heart. Honestly, it is like I said before, it's a daily thing. I have to stay. It can feel like a battle for me to get out of my head and get back into my heart, even though it's my natural in a way. It's my natural place. But I come out of the heart back into the head. Some of that's really helpful, but not all of it. And, yeah, it can feel like a battleground. So, taking care of my heart, listening to my heart, slowing everything down, is the bit where the that's my essential vital work.
Speaker 2:Um, I was I've always been heart-centered, but it scared the hell out of me when I was younger and especially when I was in my corporate job. So I built a lot of armor around me and I would show up showing almost like the armor. It was like, you know, don't get too close to me because I was scared. What people would see underneath was absolute vulnerability and sensitivity, which was absolute vulnerability and sensitivity. So that's how I got through, you know, a big chunk of my life actually, because, especially when I moved to London you know I lived in London twice and I would think, god, I need to get my armor on. I need to get things around me. Um, I can't let people see. You know, I have to be tough. I have to be really, really tough, so that I actually did the opposite to what I do now, which is taking the armor off and then, when it builds up, I have to sort of take it off again. But I'm taking it off now for me and for the people I choose to allow in. So it's like there's been a big journey on that for me, because now I'm more discerning. It's like, yes, I am vulnerable and I am sensitive and I am very giving and nurturing, but I'm not doing that all the time with everybody. So it's become much more of a like in a wisdom place and, first and foremost, I have to connect into my heart to see what it needs, and then I can take that energy back out again. Um, so that's that's been my process.
Speaker 2:I feel like we are here to live our lives and I think we're here to love, and I think we're here to receive and express love, and that brings with it a level of pain, and I feel like that pain is something that nobody wants to go. Oh, I'm choosing some pain today. Give me pain. Um, that's not, you know, that's not human. For us to do that, that would be slightly strange. However, there is something about our soul's purpose that is like you go into your life and you have your experiences and try not to fear anyway. Just go with it and have your emotions and have your feelings and do your healing work and then show the world who you are, and it's that's hard work, actually, you know, to live in that every day is quite hard work. However, I do believe it's what we're here to do, and I think, when we understand that we're here to grow and learn and experience and share and meet like-minded people and maybe not like-minded people, um and and bring some new things as coaches, you know, we're out in the world embodying the work, embodying what our values, living our truths, showing up, talking about the hard things as well as the good things, and I feel like by doing that, hopefully that can spark something in someone else to give them. You know, oh, maybe there is something that I could be saying and sharing. You know, maybe I don't need to wear the armor with this person, um, so that I feel like for me, that is definitely why I came to you to this earth and something that I have to remind myself on an ongoing basis.
Speaker 2:I want to read a poem, because this poem was a poem that was sent to me by the most amazing man when I first moved back to Leeds, before I met my husband, and I'd left my old corporate job and I was back in my old apartment in Leeds and I'd left London and I just remember looking around this apartment thinking I was, I was coaching, but it was like the beginning and I just thought, oh my god, I don't know what the future looks like. And he sent me this poem and he said read this. You know as much as you need to read it. And it just as soon as I read it out loud because I'd like to do things out loud so that the energy comes out of me and into the space around me I start crying. And when I read it and I don't read it as often now, but it does come back to me on a regular basis um, I can still get into that like emotion of it, because there's something it touches me in my heart in such a deep way. So I'm going to read it.
Speaker 2:It's a very old poem by Rainer Maria Rilke, I don't know if I said that right and it's called Go to the Limits of your Longing. And I'm going to change one of the words from God to love, because I feel like this is probably the more energy that we're talking about today. Love speaks to each of us, as she makes us, then walks with us silently out of the night. These are the words we dimly hear. You sent out beyond your recall. Go to the limits of your longing. Embody me, flare up like a flame and make big shadows. I can move in. Let everything happen to you, beauty and terror. Just keep going. No feeling is final. Don't let yourself lose me.
Speaker 2:Nearby is the country they call life. You will know it by its seriousness. Give me your hand. I've got tears in my eyes and I'm literally like overcome with that. It hits me so hard every time and I think it's that. Let everything happen to you, beauty and terror, and I feel like life is full of that. It's full of beauty and it's full of terror, and we're constantly in between these energies and sometimes we're more in one than the other, but both, both exist and through connecting back into ourselves and coming back to our hearts, we know what to do in situations and when we you know we're both mothers when we give birth. We're in beauty and we're in terror, and it is, and I feel like my most of my days are full of beauty and terror, and terror is a big word, but that feels true to me. What's coming up for you?
Speaker 1:I love, love, love. How you connect your heart with poetry, you feel every part of it and really embody it all. I find it challenging. I'm not going to lie, I am not a poetic kind of person person. I'm listening to an amazing book called Wise Women at the moment and it's all about old stories, from where the ones that have been put into folklore, and they tell the stories and I am so grateful to the author who then goes on to explain meaning within the story, because that's just not how my brain works.
Speaker 1:However, give me a good love song, a power ballad, and I'm right there, feeling every single word and emotion, and I love a good quote. So sometimes you'll see on Facebook, like just a single line comes out and it hits me and it makes sense. So I don't want to say I'm jealous, but there's a little bit of jealousy that I wish. I really wish I could connect to that, but we're all built differently, I guess. So, yeah, love it, and I think there's space for this podcast to be able to show all of it, because our listeners, hopefully, will have connected with that poem and thank you for that.
Speaker 2:Let's go back to you, then. What is, what does self-love mean to you, and how has your definition of it evolved over time?
Speaker 1:Oh well, years ago I'd hear this whole self-love stuff and I just think what a load of rubbish. I'm not gonna lie, it just felt like a bit of a marketing gimmick. Every single coach was coming out with it and I was like what's that all about? Um? But now I totally understand it and and I think it was after my last relationship when I chose to be single, and the last seven, eight years that I've been on this path, I chose self-love and I just don't know whether I gave it that name, but as I've started to understand what it, means I'm like, yeah, that's totally what I've been living, and my life has never been so beautiful, and my capacity to love has only amplified because of that journey.
Speaker 1:What I thought was love before was not love. Um, it was me going through the acts, thinking, well, if I act like this or if I do that, or if I show up for this, then that must be me showing love. And no, it wasn't. Um, I have to find my own version of that. So, in a nutshell, what I've come to believe, for me personally, is that self-love is about self-respect first and foremost, um, and every time I disrespected myself, it came from a space of dishonoring myself. Um, it was something in my life where there was some self-loathing or something about myself that I didn't like, or the situation I was in, and rather than practicing self-love, I would actually harm myself or sabotage something I was in, and so, yeah, the opposite of self-love is self-harm.
Speaker 1:That's how I see it, and I see it all the time with others too, and especially in my relationship coaching practice the amount of people who are waging war on their partners, even if it's just by giving the silent treatment or some passive, aggressive behaviors in a way to get somebody back for something that they're not even aware that they're doing.
Speaker 1:It's actually another bout of self-harm, because actually you're harming the relationship and you're harming yourself each time you do it. And I can speak truthfully about this feeling of self-harm because I stayed in a abusive, coercive relationship for far too long where that was the very thing that they took away from me my self-love, my self-respect, my autonomy, isolating me from people who knew me before, who would be able to say, well, what's going on with you, lucy? And just seeing myself chip, chip, chip away. But that flame of self-love was always still there, burning, because that's what got me out, that's what helped me to survive it. It hadn't eradicated completely, um, so, yeah, that's what comes up for me. It's self-harm is the opposite of self-love, and it all comes from self-respect first yeah, can I ask you?
Speaker 2:I always really want to talk about something here, because passive aggressiveness is something that I know have been, you know, part of um, almost like where I grew up in Manchester, mancunians. It's a very passive aggressive culture in a way, and yeah, that's a big statement, isn't it sorry to the people from Manchester?
Speaker 2:um, I'm also from Manchester as well originally and but it was almost like part of the systems that I knew, like you know people would. It was just like a chipping away that would happen and makes you feel very confused. Actually, we've talked about confusion before, haven't we? Like the how you know we can't work something out, we don't quite understand, it's not clean somehow and it kind of sits in the layers of relationships and you don't quite know what's going on or how people you know, like you can feel there's something that's not quite right. So I want to talk about passive aggressiveness. How do you, when you're doing your relationship coaching, how do you help people to overcome that? Because it is really quite sinister, I would say, even if it's unintentionally sinister, like yeah, so what I?
Speaker 1:so one of the things that um, in our training, what we're trained to do, is to either reveal to the the relationship what's going on, or what we could say is name the emotional field. So if I hear a passive, aggressive statement or any kind of toxic statement or behavior, I simply just say, oh, what happened there? Or oh, something shifted. Tell me what do you feel. And when somebody goes to the essence of like, oh yeah, it feels really heavy now, or oh yeah, I feel like there's a spark or I'm feeling a bit of rage now, then we can start unpacking it from the impact of the statement or the behavior.
Speaker 1:Because I think again, when you're conditioned I grew up in sarcasm and belittling, that was the way that my family or the, the area I came up and grew up, came from and so when you're so normalized to it, then you end up doing it yourself just because that's where you think you're supposed to be.
Speaker 1:But also it just comes into all relationships and it is really harmful. So when you let's face it, every time somebody is passive, aggressive or sarcastic or belittling, there is an emotional impact on you, there is a shift in the relationship, and my job as a coach is just to name the shift and get the clients to unpack what happened to create that shift. What was the thing? And once they can identify oh, it was the way that you said that, okay, so if that comes up again, or what, what do you want to do differently? If you feel this way? And that's where the journey begins. But it is everywhere and some people were grown up with the toxic traits of blaming or um, withdrawing, shutting down others. It's the belittling, the passive, aggressive, um. And then when you get all these different people with different experiences landing together, all you get is just toxic stuff until somebody just says, hey, what's going on here?
Speaker 2:I got very hard, you know, because I definitely had that, that trait, because it was around me, but I've worked really hard to not have that and to sort of be able to name it and go oh, actually, how could I say that in a more honoring way? How could I be more, you know, direct with what I want, actually want the need that I'm feeling inside me, or the need that isn't being met, and that comes back to the self-respect and the self-love.
Speaker 1:If you want something to shift or to change in your life, then you need to be able to find ways of expressing it that don't cause harm to somebody else, and I think that's the the cause. And also one of the things that I'd just like to say on this is, even if you do clumsily let out one of those old negative behaviors, you can still repair by saying oh sorry, I didn't mean it to come out like that, let me try it again, yeah, um, and just go back and start again, and usually you can do it better, because we're never going to be like perfect all the time, but if you make a mistake, you can always do that. Bid for repair definitely yeah great.
Speaker 1:So what's coming up with you with the whole self-love stuff? What does it mean to you?
Speaker 2:I, think for me, as I said, like I find it and I am like there, I am in my heart and you know saying kind things to myself and considering how we know what, what my needs are. So I do that and I do that practice every morning and I do it before I go to sleep at night as well. So there's like these two sort of you know, beginning and end of the day check-ins. I use my journal and then I lose it again and again. The same man that gave me the poem go to the limits of your longing showed me something once in a training, and this man was like the head trainer of an organization called more to life organization that I did a lot of training with years ago and he became my coach as well. He I remember him being at the front of the stage and he said he was talking about you know, being being in himself and connecting to himself, and he was like you know, I've got it, I've lost it, I've got it again. And it was just like I've got it, I've lost it, I've got it again. And that's the same for me in every single thing. It's like, yes, I'm there, you know, know. And then I go off and do something else and I've lost it. You know, and it's that. The thing that's great about that idea is that we are not meant to stay in the same state. You know, because I think, once you start to do deep work and you find that connection, and you know, you're in your power, you're in your wisdom, you're feeling great about yourself, you're saying kind things to yourself, you're honoring yourself in many different ways and you're like I don't ever want to lose this, and this is something else that I learn. You know, like my mind is clear, it's like whoa, look at me, you know, here I am, I feel quite elevated in this moment.
Speaker 2:And then something happens from the left field and it gets. I get wiped out from that state and I'm like back in stress, panic, worry, um, I'm feeling guilty about something, I'm shaming myself, I'm blaming myself. You know, all of those things come back in because I'm a human being and I'm like I'm back there again, aren't I? Like I wasn't there and now I am. Okay, I've lost it, no problem. What is happening? Okay, let's go find it again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it just gives me permission and it gives other people permission, and he taught me that really brilliantly through a little song and it's like you know, gone, click, wake up, click, get back in it, click. You know I know exactly how to recover and reset. So it's that for me it's just like if I know that I've lost it, then I know that I can find it again. Yeah, I don't know that I've lost it and I'm somewhere else and I'm in the you know, the headless chicken moments of life and I'm like you know, and is that wake up of going, I've lost it? Okay, we'll get back, get back on that pony and start riding that horse again. Um, don't get out of the ditch that you've. You know the horse has bolted, get back on it. And and it's that idea for me and it's so empowering because it also means that I'm responsible for myself, I'm responsible for my recovery and from getting back, you know, getting out of the headless chicken into a more of a mindful, heartful place, no one can do that work for me.
Speaker 1:My hands are open it is interesting because it comes back to, um, some of the misconceptions about what self-love is, and I think some people think well, once a week I'll go to my yoga class, um, and um, in January I'll do dry January or vegan January, and therefore I'm doing self-love. And it isn't. It isn't a constant state and it isn't a one-time fixed thing, and then you're done um, and I think that's one of the things that what I guess why I was skeptical when the whole self-love journey thing came out um, because nobody was being really honest about that. It's actually, it is an internal state and it's about, then, what you are willing to accept, whether it's the food, whether it's the um exercise, whether it's the career, all of those kind of things that feed into you, um, and knowing that even in within an hour, you can get it, you can lose it, and but when you have that self-love as a foundation, it is easier to return and it is easier to notice when you're not not honoring yourself or when you are doing that self-harm towards yourself, um. So just to talk about some of the things that I guess I do now in terms of my self-love practice, um, one of the things that and I guess this is for most women from the day you're born, you're basically taught that our role is to be of service and to love others. And so, yeah, that was where all of my energy was. It was going towards other people and outwards. And so that's when I started to understand I'm not really ever putting what I want first, and I think I was a little bit scared too, because I am quite a force. So if I, you know, totally went into doing that, I was scared about the unbalance that might create.
Speaker 1:But what I'm now starting to bring into my practice is, again, I journal every day. I make sure that I do things that I truly love. So if something, if I don't love something, I'm like why am I doing this? But what, what's? How's this serving me? So it might be that I say no to that invitation, or, um, I take a a shorter walk that day rather than a long one, because it's cold and miserable outside. Um, it means that sometimes I actually do want to just get a takeaway on a Friday night because I'm exhausted, and why do I have to cook? So it's about looking and honouring what I want first, and then, beyond that, it is about building my practice.
Speaker 1:So once I've identified what brings me joy, what is it I truly want to need, then it's about purposely going out there buying it, and we were having a bit of a conversation about guilt around money, and this month I've actually spent quite a lot of money on things that bring me joy. So I've paid for a very expensive gym membership. I've joined and paid an annual subscription for a women's circle, which I truly need. I've just paid for an amazing holiday to Costa Rica in one go, and then I was like but no, this is an act of self-love. So, hearing that, what are you thinking? What are you feeling? What's your heart telling you?
Speaker 2:oh god, well, I just remember it. I remember I always go through so many stories when we're talking and you know, there was a time when I had to sort of really well, I think we're always practicing self-love, aren't we? In different ways. But you know, after my hit and run accident, which I've talked about before on this podcast, but you know, I got hit by a car for anyone who hasn't heard them and I fractured tibia amphibia on the platter of my knee. It's a very, very dicey area to have fractures because it's the knee which is very complicated.
Speaker 2:But at that point in my life I had a fear of moving forward. And then, you know, and that morning I was in a really bad place. I did an awful job with a toxic boss, um, I was doubting myself and I just said, you know, please make this stop, like as a little prayer that I said. And I got hit by a car. Um, I was so rock bottom. It took me six months by the time my leg was, my knee was healed and I was so rock bottom. It took me six months by the time my leg, my knee was healed and I was walking again like it was, like I needed a six month out, six months of just taking care of me, doing very basic things because I couldn't walk and I couldn't bend my knee, and it was like I knew that that was what I was needed, what was needed for me. You know, I was 31 at the time.
Speaker 2:It took me on a massive journey of healing, of looking at you know how I was disempowering myself. You talked about self-sabotaging and self-harm. I think when we stay in toxic relationships whether that's with a boss or a partner, a love partner, or it might be a business relationship but when we're in a toxic relationship, we are self harming ourselves. And that was definitely what I've been doing for that nine months in that job. And then it taught me the power of the body as well to heal. And I started reading healing books like Louise Hayes. You can heal your life, you can heal your body. And it just took me off on a big, big journey and I knew at that point that I needed to do something that would help other people. It woke me up to such a huge extent and I was, you know, yeah, I was on. I mean I couldn't be on my knees, but I was on my knees, you know, if you think about it, and I just got down to it and I focused on what I needed physically and emotionally to heal and that was my work for six months and self-love was my medicine and, um, it made me realize how strong and resilient I actually am. You know, when people were brilliant around me, you know I had a lot of love and support and it worked out.
Speaker 2:You know, I still have ongoing problems with my knee.
Speaker 2:It's like that reminder for me, like I needed something so, so significant and big, that for me it's a constant reminder of, you know, not overstretching too much, just taking care of my needs, listening to my body, resetting you know myself, because if I, if I exercise too much or I go too far, then my knee will let me know and I have to pull back and it's just this constant like, oh, that's too much, okay, come back.
Speaker 2:That it's given me, like there's so many lessons and learnings and it will continue to do that for the rest of my life. I think, um, yeah, so that that that was a biggie for me. It was a life experience. It continues to be, and I think, listening to you know what we need and honoring our bodies, honoring our needs honoring the relationships and honoring for us then we have a responsibility to ourself to do something about that, and that might take time, you know. I think for most of us if we're in something and you want it to work and yet you can't kind of make it, it does take time to get out of things sometimes. So I'm very, very aware of that and at the same time we have to know that we are on a path to leave something that is not helpful for us or that is harming us in some way, and you know we've got to find whatever routes we can find to walk out the door.
Speaker 1:I think routes we can find to um, walk out the door? I think yeah. And through the the relationship coaching work that I do, there's um, you know, quite a few people come to me when they have been in what is turning into a toxic relationship or it's a relationship that is not fulfilling them and their partner, and whether it's just that they've got into bad behaviours and on the outside you might think why don't they just split up? But actually, through, you know if there is love there and whether this is again with your boss or with your team or with a friend.
Speaker 1:Relationships are not accidental. Relationships are not accidental. They take absolute work and effort and knowing that you play a part in that relationship equally, and through the relationship coaching, we can like take a step back and say what am I doing in this relationship that's serving me and fulfilling my dreams? How is it helping the other person also to fulfill their best selves? And maybe do a bit of reset and almost renegotiate or realign what is it we want?
Speaker 1:And sometimes, out of that, it is a case of no. This has no future. It was a season of my life. It's time to move on. Sometimes the power of learning how to love, be in relationship and support yourself, but support others can actually create the most amazing long-standing relationships, the kind that we see our grandparents maybe had, because they you know, let's face it, our grandmothers couldn't own properties, they couldn't go anywhere, so that they had no um, no, no, stay. So they stayed, they got through it and um and yeah. So I wouldn't ever advocate staying in something that is really toxic. But also, maybe do the work because you can.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of healing that can be done from both parties when you both take responsibility for the part that you're playing and that point isn't there of healing as well, like you know, the need for all parties to heal, I also feel like for me, in the situation I was in, I needed to learn some quite big lessons and I learned them and they taught me well. Actually, it's taught me well and I do have that feeling. I can feel when something's like you know, like I, I just would not stay in, something that was making me so miserable and making me doubt myself. Just the level that I was, you know, and trying to prove myself, to the level that I was, I just wouldn't do that. Now, you know, and I learned that at 31 and I've taken, I took it on with me into every single thing that I did and it was like, if it's got to be like that, if I'm going to feel like that, it's not worth it for me and that was one of those reason relationships that you found yourself in.
Speaker 1:It came to you to teach you something and, as a result of it and your accident, you changed as a human being and so, therefore, that relationship you'd outgrown it it was. It was never going to fulfill you because it was never supposed to be a lifetime. And again I think, um, sometimes we feel like we have to stay in a relationship, even with a child or a parent, out of obligation and duty, that form of love, but sometimes it's the bravest thing to do to say no, this is harming me, this is, this is not ever going to give me or them what they need. And you know, maybe codependency is a whole other podcast topic that we go into.
Speaker 1:So the final area I think we should maybe explore is, you know, I suppose, self-love. If you take it too far, almost, it becomes almost a little bit selfish and in it, you know, I want everybody to be selfish and put themselves first, but not at the expense of others. But equally, society is expecting us to be selfish and put themselves first, but not at the expense of others. But equally, society is expecting us to be all and everything to everybody else, with our careers, our family, everything else. So what's your thoughts around women balancing self-love and all of those external pressures, trying to have it all?
Speaker 2:oh, oh god.
Speaker 2:I mean, I feel like this is a whole another podcast in itself maybe it will be yeah so I'm not going to try and answer it because I'm like we will be here for another hour if we start talking about that one.
Speaker 2:Um, the big thing that I see when I do the work with women is for them to take full permission, for them to break out of these molds. And you know, I do think we can have it all maybe not exactly at the same time. So the way that I've lived my life is I did the big career. I couldn't put the family in the, the significant relationship into that, and I always knew it. So then I exited and built my coaching practice and then love appeared quite quickly and then took a bit longer to to do the family side. I was then took a bit longer to to do the family side. I was really lucky that I was able to do it like that, because not everybody's that lucky and I realized that. But that's been sort of my journey and I kind of knew I couldn't have it all at the same time, because that's not how I operate personally.
Speaker 1:Some women can make it all work at the same time well, I did, in the sense of I had the career, I had family, I had the marriage, I had all of that the bit that I didn't have was the self-love bit yeah and I, but then at the same time, you know, now my daughter's six, we me and Richard been together for, like we go this is our 11th year actually.
Speaker 2:My career is booming so but it's just like it was like, you know, having a baby and you know, and then lots of life experience all happened. It was like, you know, having a baby and you know, and then lots of life experience all happened. It was like that wasn't really possible for me to be in, like flying off in the way that I used to fly off, and I didn't want to be flying off in the way that I used to fly off a different career you know so.
Speaker 2:So I have made it work, but I have I've made it work in a very, very different way and on my own terms, and I feel like that is the for me, that is self-love for me to be able to say hold on a minute, I'm in charge. You know, I think it's what I want to say to women is you are always in charge of yourself and no matter what society tells you, what somebody else tells you, um, you are always in charge of yourself and you have. You know as much as the world wants to tell us that we don't have any choice. We do, and especially in certain parts of the world. In certain parts of the world, we may not have choices, and that is heartbreaking for me.
Speaker 2:But let's just work under the guise that our job is to realise that we're at choice, that we can walk through a door and walk out another door when we choose to. And you know, for any woman who doesn't feel like that, I'm around for any direct messages, and I'm sure you are too, lucy, because that's a different scenario, you know. Yeah, it kind of comes back into that place of going. This is my vision, this is what I want. Does it fit and what do I need? And I think, like you said earlier, if we're not connected to self-love, things do get a lot harder and, I think, making hard. Sometimes it feels like it's really hard choices to make. Yet if we are moving towards loving ourselves and giving ourselves permission to live our, you know, the life that we really want, then that's a fantastic thing.
Speaker 2:And I'm all for that, even if it looks to other people, you know, to the outside world selfish, I'm like we need to be more selfish sometimes. What?
Speaker 1:about you. I just want to point the listeners to a couple of books which talk about when you literally have nothing, and yet you can control your own mind. And especially you can control your own mind and especially you can control your whole heart, because the love, the essence of the love, that you have for somebody or for yourself cannot ever be taken away. Um, it's existed, that spark has existed, it will always exist, even if the partner is no longer with us anymore. And one book book is by Viktor Frankl, man's Search for Meaning, and the other one is by Edith Elgar Eager, which is the Choice and then the Gift. I highly recommend, if you feel like you are literally trapped, go find those books and they will show you that you're not. Physically you may be, but emotionally and mentally you can be free. And I just wanted to kind of close down with a couple of things that I do, small little acts of joy and self-care, self-love that I do for those who are not quite on the the whole inner journey but they want to take baby steps. So one of the things that I've always done, even since having very small children, is have my hot bubble bath, creating a little mini spa for myself and mums out there. If you um still have the little ones walking into the room every time you go to the toilet, an act of self-love is to put a lock on the bloody door. So take that permission. I journal, and actually one of the best acts of self-love and I did this just yesterday was going to um a shop and go and buying a beautiful journal, one that you actually want to hold in your hand, and spending 10, 20, 30 minutes just perusing the stationery shop. Nothing is more self-fulfilling and beautiful than that for me. And I have to do it alone, and I dance in the kitchen whenever an amazing song comes on, so I just let everything else go and for that moment I'm just free. I'm like my six-year-old little girl self. Again, that is an act of self-love.
Speaker 1:I love gardening. I buy myself flowers just because they make me feel happy, and every time I look at them or smell them, it gives me a little sense of joy because I did that for me. I decorate my space the way that I want it with my trinkets and my ornaments, or my candles, or buying a new cushion for the sofa these little acts that give you joy, but they're lasting, because even if they're not physical, they'll last in your heart. I don't drink cheap wine anymore. I'm done with that, you know. So if I'm going to have one glass, I want it to be really lovely, and I really do appreciate a good cup of coffee in silence. So they're just a couple of my little things. Dawn, give us some of your quick, instant self-love acts I need a lie down.
Speaker 2:After all of that, I'm absolutely exhausted. I just, yeah, one thing a a day, small thing a day. You know coffee in the morning for me. My husband always brings me a coffee up, uh, first thing. So I literally um, he comes in my hand, reaches out, I grab the coffee, I sit up, drink the coffee and then I can talk. I'm literally like, yeah, I'm like Gollum when I wake up in the morning. So, you know, and he brings me that, which I adore because I don't have to go down, you know, do the coffee thing, and you know that's his form of love for me.
Speaker 2:It's not really self-love, but, my God, do I appreciate it. And then, you know, I think I just close my eyes, appreciate it. And then, you know, I think I just close my eyes. When I close my eyes, I find everything I need on the inside and it's as simple as that and it might just be a couple of heart breaths into my heart and cross, opening up my chest. I'm back when I do that. So I'd like to keep it simple. But there's so many things, but those are my and the journaling.
Speaker 2:But definitely, just for you know, for any woman close your eyes, listen to the sound of your own breath. Just let it ground you back down to the earth. Everything you need is inside. Just remember that and just keep doing that over and over like a record, um, every single day, before you go to sleep. When you wake up, um, yeah, give yourself a break. That's it really for me. Um, I'm gonna close up.
Speaker 2:Today. I am literally my heart is pounding. I feel like I'm not sure whether I want to laugh or cry. Right now. I'm gonna, you know, take a bit of time after this call to you know, recenter myself, let all of this move through, because I feel like the pot has been stirred. Um, the pot was stirred before we even started doing the podcast for me this morning, so I definitely need some space to recover and there might be some tears in there that I'm going to release out, but there's also a lot of love in my heart and a lot of gratitude, you know, for our conversations and for, you know, this inner sort of um temple that we go into every time we have conversations and yet we're also together in the world. So super grateful for that. I wish everybody a beautiful valentine's and do whatever feels right for you and listen to your own needs, and thank you so much for joining us so thanks for listening and we can't wait to welcome you next time.
Speaker 2:Until then, use your voice journal, speak or sing out loud. However you do it. We hope you join us in saying it's a star.