Say it Sister...
Lucy and Karen, two 40-somethings, are always chatting about life, and all that it has to throw at them, and now want to share their raw, honest conversations with you. Their journey of self-discovery and healing is something many of us can relate to. We all possess a unique power within us, but life’s trials often knock us off course. They have the tools, the courage to speak up and simply say it as it is, so you might feel seen, and understood and gain practical tools and techniques for self-discovery and personal growth during the changes we experience.
Say it Sister...
From Competition to Collaboration: The Wise Woman's Path
We explore the transformative power of female collaboration and how embracing different leadership styles creates magic that couldn't exist otherwise. Moving beyond competition to collaboration unlocks parts of ourselves that would remain dormant in isolation, showing how we are truly greater than the sum of our parts.
• Women thrive through collaborative partnerships rather than competitive, scarcity-based mindsets
• The "emotional handshake" of trust and honesty creates a foundation stronger than any formal contract
• Different feminine leadership styles complement each other, from visionary mountain-top seers to deep-diving truth seekers
• Self-awareness about personal triggers helps us stay connected to our inner wisdom
• Finding the balance between action and patience is key to wise leadership
• Creating space for reflection and radical self-care allows us to lead from a place of joy rather than depletion
Follow us at Wise Women Leads on LinkedIn and continue the conversation. Reflect on how you can embody your wise feminine leadership in your life today.
Hello and welcome to the Say it Sister podcast.
Speaker 2:I'm Lucy and I'm Karen, and we're thrilled to have you here. Our paths crossed years ago on a shared journey of self-discovery, and what we found was an unshakable bond and a mutual desire to help others heal and live their very best lives.
Speaker 1:For years, we've had open, honest and courageous conversations, discussions that challenged us, lifted us and sometimes even brought us to tears. We want to share those conversations with you. We believe that by letting you into our world, you might find the courage to use your voice and say what really needs to be said in your own life, whether you're a woman seeking empowerment, a self-improvement enthusiast or someone who craves thought-provoking dialogue, join us, as we promise to bring you real, unfiltered conversations that encourage self-reflection and growth.
Speaker 1:So join us as we explore, question and grow together. It's time to say say it, sister, welcome back. In this episode we continue the wisdom, conversations and the wisdom of collaboration, partnerships and how we are more when we are together. If we allow others' brilliance to shine, we are all greater than the sum of our parts. We explore feminine leadership styles and how differences complement each other and how getting out of our own heads can reduce burnout and anxiety. So let's jump straight back into the conversation.
Speaker 1:I need people in my life. I don't need them there all the time. But I've also worked as a solo entrepreneur, solo coach for so long and I've loved it because I love that independence. But I also just keep doing the same thinking or get the same energy from myself, and it's a lot to have to bring my own energy game every day. And then, when you and I started collaborating, I just energised all the time. Every time I know that you and I are going to have a call, or when we send each other a WhatsApp message or I hear your voice, I just become instantly energised, but in a really healthy, energized way, and it just unlocks something for me, because you and I are very different people. We have the same values and philosophy on life, same belief system, but we are very different people. So there's something there that brings out the best in me when I'm with you.
Speaker 2:And I hope vice versa. Oh, my god, I mean I'm just dreaming, I am, yeah, because you know, we all need like strong sisters in our lives, you know, and they don't have to be blood sisters, but we need. It is so vital that we have that like belief and that connection into other women, because we are on similar journeys, might be different, like you say, we're different, but we have so much more that connects, but we have so much more that connects us. We have so many similarities and then we can still hold the differences and actually it works because it's the differences that also give us the like, the different perspectives, so we get to grow and learn from each other.
Speaker 2:You know, and go like, oh, she's doing that, I'm going to give that a go because you know, lucy's got a real, you know, capacity, um, and she's so fast at how she's doing stuff and I don't and I'll be sort of much more considered. And you know, going deep and thinking about it and like really sort of tuning in, and you know like sometimes there's a space for the other side of it to just be like don't overthink it, just do it. Um, you know, don't go too deep, keep it top line.
Speaker 1:Not everybody wants deep yeah, and that's why we work together so well, because again, I, I would, um and tethered, just run 100 miles an hour all all the time. And when you say, actually I just need to just let me pause all this or it's not feeling right, I'm like, oh, actually, no, it doesn't feel right for me either, and then I'll go away and do something even better because I've given myself that little bit of extra time. So we both keep feeding each other, nurturing each other, and that's where the magic comes. And then I started to look at other relationships that I've got, um, and what they give me in different parts of me that get unlocked there, whether it's with my mum or with my daughters, my friends, my women's circle that I go to. I've got all of these other communities and each different part of it serves something, brings something to me, to my life.
Speaker 1:That wouldn't be there if I was just in that whole solo competition, comparison, scarcity mindset. My life would be so diminished and that's why I just want to. It's part of that matriarchal system, isn't it? It's the opposite of patriarchy, where we're all solo travellers and we've got to, you know, get there on our own. Actually, we're pack animals. Essentially, you know, we are community builders. We live in little units and that's that's how we have thrived as a race. That's why we have, you know, got to every single part of the this world.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and if I look at my journey in fact, my whole journey I can see that the biggest asset has been my ability to collaborate and to take people on journeys with me and then take me on journeys as well. So it's a two-way street. That has been my biggest skill, because I have had problems with women. I have met women who bullied and been threatened by me. I have had all of that that. They're not alien experiences to me. However, as soon as I found my voice and started to stand up for myself which took quite a long time, but as soon as I did, those people sort of drifted away and so it stopped happening, I would say round about in my 30s, you know. But I also had loads of beautiful, incredible women who also backed me, who supported me. So it wasn't. I was lucky that it wasn't an alien. You know what I mean. It wasn't the other way around, and what I have seen as a self-employed solopreneur is the biggest thing that has connected me has been my ability to collaborate, and I don't think I would be still doing this job you know, 13 years down the line If it hadn't been for the amazing female collaborators that I've worked with. You are one of those women, but there are others, and I have met these women and I've become their coach and then something magical has taken over and it has been this ability and it's the co-creation piece, the two together or the three together, and I would.
Speaker 2:I feel like I've got this tribe of women who are ambassadors for me, who push me forward. She's a good coach. Work with her. I've got somebody on my team. Can you work with her? Can you go? Yes, I love your idea, we're going to make it happen. Um, here we go, you know, and off I go with it. So I'll go to them with ideas and they're like, yes, and they, I don't even need to sell it, they're on board and there's just something magical. And obviously I support them as well, because it's not all one way and it's this, this magical like, it makes me want to wait.
Speaker 2:When I think about it in the happiest way, because when I set out on the journey, I never thought I would feel so. You know, I'm here to support them. I never felt that I would get this collaboration, this support back, and the reason that coming back is because of the work I'm doing. Um, so it's like been earned, but it is. And for any women out there that coming back is because of the work I'm doing, um, so it's like been earned, but it is. And for any women out there that think what is she talking about? You have a whole world out there that is waiting for you to connect into other women.
Speaker 2:Because when we do that something that you said to me, lucy, is you said I'm trustworthy, and I knew you were trustworthy as we were starting to have conversations and we start sharing our work and we start sharing our USPs and our um, our collateral, you know, as partners, and it's like there's that sort of deep breath moment when you go.
Speaker 2:We don't have any agreements in place, so we're doing this purely on trust and love, really, and so working together is this wonderful thing, but there's nothing pinning us down. In a way, we're quite free and what we have got is this ability to trust each other and honesty. And so for me, like I realized that what makes a beautiful partnership, what makes a collaboration work, is that you can be honest with the other person two way street, that that person is honest back to you and that you trust each other, because if you don't have those two things, then you're going to play guarded You're going to, the energy is just totally off and I feel like that's the fundamental for me, like we've got each other's backs, we trust each other, there's space for growth and we tell each other the truth.
Speaker 1:I mean, and you know what the, the emotional um handshake, so to speak, is, is the most powerful one, you know. But long before we had lawyers and contracts and things like that, it was the honor of your word or that, you know, gentleman's handshake, whatever it was like. This is the deal and you do not break it. And we're obviously talking about, you know, wise women lead and having to formalise all of that and it was just so heavy for all of us because, again, that's that is a patriarchal thing.
Speaker 1:You know, we need to have these frameworks and these structures in place and we can't go and open a bank account until we have this and it just like we've got to quantify in writing and in a contract what this thing between us is, because we, we are women, we, the currency between us is all grounded in that emotional trust and honesty and everything that we're creating. And that's why I say it's magic. You can't, you can't, uh, measure it, you can't say this is the formula that makes this happen. And that's where I guess magic, it's alchemy, because we, we've got this partnership, this collaboration. We create something that could never exist otherwise, yeah, but yeah, I couldn't write a book on what it was because I don't know what the secret ingredients are, or the step one to five program, because it doesn't exist.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it is that thing of taking it step by step, movement by movement, which, again, we're not trained to do. We want, and I love, a step-by-step process. It gives me so much life to be able to go. Let's move from one space to the next, because I feel like I've got a roadmap and a bit of a plan and for someone like me who goes deep, I do need a little bit of structure, otherwise I can't like. It's almost like my brain, my brain wants structure, my body's like forget the structure, let's just go, you know, and between these two different places and all the different parts of me, something magical does happen. But I do need like one, two, three, four, like just there is an option. You know, whether I take, whether I go that road is a different thing. Um, so I love what we're doing together and I love the fact that it is, you know, evolving as we go and we are testing and we're playing in the space.
Speaker 2:What about our different leadership styles? Should we talk about that? Because we are very different and we are both wise women leaders, hence why we gave the company the name. There's like a real, like claiming of that, which is what I love about this work. It's almost like we're looking at the world, we're looking at ourselves, we're looking at what we can offer and we're claiming something at the same time, like we're not shrinking, um, we're not, we're not being invisible. We we're kind of out in the world now and we're showing and we're talking and we're telling and all of that. So this feels really, really celebratory, um, and yet we're different. So let's, let's, go into you. What's, what's your wise woman leadership style?
Speaker 1:so, above all, I think everybody always tells me I am a burst of energy. Um, when I walk into the room, I light it up. I am an eternal optimist. I am lightness, but also I'm ballsy. Um, I will call a spade a spade. Um, I will do it with care.
Speaker 1:But I work, I'm not afraid to name something and meet, you know, step into the fire, so to speak. So I would say that I've been, I've been told I can be, when I'm, you know, out of sorts, a bit like Tigger, bouncing around with all of this positive energy. But equally, I am, I have this wisdom and I can be really grounded and know when to use which energy. And, above all, I think my my thing and it's always been there my thing is taking the big picture view. I'm not good with detail and when people try and look at you know, the go snorkeling in the bog, I'm just like I don't want to be there. I want to be up on the top of the mountain seeing the whole ecosystem and how everything's working together, and so I like to get lots of information, lots of awareness, and put all the dots together and see, you know, see what's emerging and then shine a spotlight on it, name it and then have the courage to go there with conviction. But I do it from this bigger picture point of view.
Speaker 1:So some may call it visionary leadership. I don't know. I just show up with authenticity. But the energy I do think I have is this kind of warrior energy, and whether it's Bodhisattva, buddhikaica, um britannia, you know, with a stake in the ground and a hand on a heart, that's kind of this, this energy that I bring to my leadership. But it's not about me being the leader, because the whole point of me being the leader is about making sure that everybody around me is happy and thriving and living their best versions of themselves, and if they're not doing that, then I'm not doing my full life's purpose. I don't know. Do you see that? I do see that.
Speaker 2:I absolutely see that I'm smiling the way here because I'm so different and yet there are similarities there. I love a good bog, you know. I love getting into the dirty water and being like, what's this, what's in the mud? Like, can we go into that please? So for me it's like you know, I love seeing the big, beautiful mountain and but I'm also like, oh hey, is there some like bogs down here that we need to go in first before we get up that mountain? Let's go.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, I've been sort of compared to a crystal clear lake, um, that you can go into. But when you go, when you go to a certain point, you're going to go really deep. The lake is very, very deep. So, you know, be prepared when you come in to the water with me, because you're probably going to be taken down to the bottom of that lake to see what's there, um, you know. And then, of course, we need to come out of there because we don't want to get stuck. But for me, this is just like it's such a joy when people trust me with the you know, the dark, the depth, the shadow, because that's part of you know, that's part of what I'm here to do and I do see that for me it's like taking women into their inner cave, you know, and going into those dark spots and then coming out back out into the light. It sounds very twee, um, but it's so, so important. And, you know, the warrior does speak to me as well, um, but I think of it from the space of the spiritual warrior and I've done a lot of work in that field, years and years of training to be a spiritual warrior, and that speaks to me so deeply because it's a bit. It's about being having a sword of truth and a shield of love and really coming into, you know, the heart space and moving out from that place, um, which requires a lot of courage. And I think if there's something I was going to claim for myself fully today, it's like that. I am courageous in my pursuit of the truth and of what's right. So that that's really what comes through for me, and I'm just the joy of seeing women.
Speaker 2:I do use a lot of the feminine archetypes, and I know you do too, you know, but I'll see a woman and I'll start working with that woman and I can just see something in her and I just think Amazonian or whatever it might be, you know an Amazonian queen, and that's again, it sounds very big and bold, but when you, when we see something in another woman and we sort of you know we can give that as a, as a archetype, something to play with I have women that work with who are priestesses it resonates with them and then they can take that deeper and then when they kind of go out into the world, they've got something inside them that they can connect to that is so like elevated, that it's like it feels almost like a little bit egotistical, you could say.
Speaker 2:However, when it's done from the heart and it's done from a place of like truth, it's the most beautiful thing. And you know, the work that we do is a gift, and I feel that now is the time for us to take this out to women in a celebratory, open, conscious way, and certainly that's what we're going to be doing with our new programs. I'm so excited about that. What are the red flags, the watchouts that you have, the things that take you away from your wisdom or your deeper connection? What gets in the way?
Speaker 1:um, for me, it is anything to do with closed-minded when whether it's myself or somebody else telling me this is the way this is correct. Um, because again, big picture me just says no, we need to create space, we need to take a bigger view. What are all the different things? So, as soon as anybody says anything that's in absolutes, you know, it's that black and white view. It's a real red flag to me and it really I don't know, because a lot of the stuff that I work with it's a sense of knowing, or it's this wisdom, or using all the senses. As soon as somebody says, oh, the reason why I don't know Trump has done this or the answer to the Ukrainian problem, is that I'm just like no, and so that's a real red flag for me being around people who are absolutes.
Speaker 2:It's interesting, isn't?
Speaker 1:it.
Speaker 2:And where does that take you inside yourself?
Speaker 1:I feel it's all in my chest and then my head starts to want to um, scream and yell, because what I know is when people are in absolutes, they actually don't want to listen, they just want to tell. They don't want to um be open to influence. They have to control, because their whole life is is based on, you know, control and certainty. That's why they have this black and white view, um, and I get so frustrated because the only people that are going to bring them out of their way of being is themselves. And yet I'm like, just listen to other points of view. I get so frustrated, and especially when it's toxic stuff that they're they're spouting off or they're talking about, um, because I'm, I get a little bit of hopelessness.
Speaker 2:Equally, the value that it's rubbing on. What's the value that that's rubbing on?
Speaker 1:I guess there's freedom. Freedom is such a huge value of mine about being able to have free thought, so as soon as somebody tells me you're wrong or it's this way or there's only one solution, it just absolutely attacks everything about free thought, freedom of speech, freedom of expression, you know?
Speaker 2:um, that's what it attacks yeah, well, that would make total sense why you would have that response as well you know, we feel like it's something that's threatening to us, then that's going to take us deeper into our own shadow, in a way. And yet you know, as we always say, we can only change people to a certain like. You can influence, you can put different perspectives, you can have conversations, but there was just a point sometimes, isn't there, when we both say I can't get involved in that yeah because I'm fighting a battle that I can't win that battle with that person.
Speaker 2:But I can totally sort of like disconnect from that and go and put that energy into something else you know, just as the work that you're doing.
Speaker 1:And that's why I say I'm a light worker in that sense, you know, I shine the lights because I'm like, ok, the beacon is over here. If you want to look and you want to come and see, then come with us.
Speaker 1:But if you want to stay in you, you know you can die there by your sword or your stake in the ground, um and, but that's your choice, because if I keep trying, I'm just gonna I'm gonna put my own light out by trying to fight the other side, and it's just not worth it got it, I got it yeah, I was gonna say in my 20s I was the one trying to drag everybody out and it was exhausting, whereas now, this wisdom that I now have as I've matured, um, that's where I like, nah, let's use this.
Speaker 2:This amount of energy that I've got, let's use it with discernment exactly, and I think there's a difference between seeing something in someone and thinking, oh, that's really limiting and limiting that person, and and perhaps there's something we can do to shift that perspective, versus saving them and changing them, which we can't do, and I've had to learn that myself it's like there's just a point when you can offer it's like here you go, here's some beautiful bread that I've cooked for you. Would you like to have that or would you not like to eat it? You know, like you offer it, they eat it, they don't eat it, they take it, they don't take it. The rest is kind of up to them. And that kind of letting go process of stepping back and saying, well, thank you for your opinion, you know, you move on because you have to, you know. So that's, that's something that I've had to learn and I think becoming a mother has taught me it. Um, because I just, you know the eternal one in me that wants to shift and make everything perfect for everyone. Um, you know, like there's a point when I just go oh, that's not my journey, oh, that's not my experience, oh, I'm having a response from my experience. Okay, let catalina have her experience. Like you know, be there, support, guide, you know, protect all of those things absolutely 100 of her mother. But then it's like she's gonna.
Speaker 2:She's at school. She has to learn these things. She's got to learn how to use a voice herself. I can give her trainings at home to do, but when she's at school I can't speak for her. I can't say to someone stop doing that. She has to do it. So she's learned and she's learning to do that, to stand up for herself, to um, to listen to what's going on in her body and say I'm actually upset by that. That's not okay with me. No, you know, and the teachers have said they can hear her voice now. She was like a little tiny. She wasn't tiny but she's. She's got a big energy. But Catalina's job, when she's with people, she'll do anything to fit into the group. She's all about others, she's all about belonging and so for her to be that, you know where she needs to become more individual in herself. She's learning some things via the school experience. That is taking her back into her own experience and you could not have given her that.
Speaker 2:It doesn't matter how much love and mothering you.
Speaker 1:You can't make her find her own voice, because otherwise it's your voice. She's just mimicking.
Speaker 2:Exactly. But what I've been able to do is listen to her and find out what's going on inside her and then give her some little tools that she's now using, which is working. So you know, I mean she's little, so we've got a long. We've got a long road ahead with this. This is not, certainly not fixed, but you know, there's a part of me that wants to go in and be like right, who is it, you know? Like, and that's just not. That's not helping her and it's not helping me. So it's like that. You know lots of deep breaths on my side. I know that when I get into urgency, when I start to feel desperate, I have that's a, that's my personal red flag with myself, because what that does is send me down a frenzied path. I've become slightly chaotic and I'm literally like how do I fix that? How do I fix that? How do I fix that? What can I do? How can I help? How can I help? And it's exhausting and it you know, on the horizon.
Speaker 2:It's quite far ahead, um, because I do a lot of recovery time and the resetting myself because I have to is burnout. So you know, as soon as I get into that and I can get into it quite easily and I can stay there for quite a while, but I know that it's. There's nothing wrong with feeling desperate. There's nothing wrong with feeling hopeless in situations, um, there's nothing wrong with that. I'm better off to sit with those feelings and just allow those feelings to be present and then they will start to move and just take more time and take more space, and better to do that than start acting at that point. And I I feel like life is made up of two things, and I was talking to a client about this the other day.
Speaker 2:We've got two options. This is going to sound really polarizing for you. Okay, either wait or we act. And I think having the wisdom to know when you know, when do we wait, when do we act Fun for me. If I was going to break it down, that's it and the only way we'll know. And we don't know 100% as well, so we do have to make some mistakes along the way, but generally the body's going to tell us go, say no, you know, and it's that. And it sounds so simplistic. We've been talking about this for you, you know, and the simple simplicity of that. But it really works for me because I go, I think I need to just sit and wait a little bit longer, as uncomfortable that can be for me, or don't wait any longer, go and. And it's constantly sort of in between these two spaces for me, because I need simple things, otherwise I just over complicate.
Speaker 1:I'm just thinking about, um, some of the advice that I've given, because this is not me, I'm not. There is one or the other, it's just not how I'm made up. But I have advised um clients just to either roll the dice or flip a coin and then, whatever the result is, are you happy about it or have you getting an emotional reaction? So I get it and it is a tool. Um, I'm much more of a person who will either, um, just just go for it, just be brave. You were the bravest person you're going to be right now. Just just jump, leap.
Speaker 1:What direction would you go in? But also, knowing that the direction is an encompass and there's north, south, east, west, so there's there's, you know, that's where I I talk about, like having this big picture. It's like, well, you could, you can even step backwards, you can do a sideward movement, you can go forward, um, but I agree that it's either you move or you stay still there's. There are no um other options. But again, it's not just about moving forward. You can move anywhere. That that then I'm happy, I'm with it. But, um, yeah, you've heard about us as leaders. It'd'd be really amazing for you to explore what kind of leader you are, and especially when you're bringing your wise leader.
Speaker 2:Me, oh, my God, oh, I was on about the listeners.
Speaker 1:I was a listener Because we've been on for about an hour, but maybe we can talk about that later. We need to close the circle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I get it. I get it. Well, let's wrap up, then. What I want to say is for you to be with your wisdom. There is going to be a need for radical self-care, there'll be a need for space and there'll be a need to listen to what's going on and to cultivate. That will take a little bit more time, but I promise you, we promise you, that if you do take a considered step forward into yourself, then everything around you will feel different, will look different, and actually, you get to cultivate from a deeper and more elevated place. Um, you'll be able to make decisions that just feel more in alignment with you, and that's when we get into our place of greater fulfillment, greater joy. Um, yeah, I think.
Speaker 2:I think we can be so, we can be wise, we can lead, but if we're not feeling joy and fulfillment within ourselves at certain peaks, you know, in the day, then something's off, and I don't think either of us are here to do that. So, yeah, for me, explore your wisdom. You know, listen to what's happening, listen to your needs on a basic level. You know, listen to what's happening, listen to your needs on a basic level. You can come and follow us at Wise Women Leads. We're on LinkedIn and continue the conversation with us there. If this has resonated with you reflect, really reflect, and apply what is the one way that you can embody your wise feminine leadership in your life today.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for joining us today and thank you, lucy so thanks for listening and we can't wait to welcome you next time.
Speaker 2:Until then, use your voice journal, speak or sing out loud. However you do it. We hope you join us in saying it's a star.