Say it Sister...
Lucy and Karen, two 40-somethings, are always chatting about life, and all that it has to throw at them, and now want to share their raw, honest conversations with you. Their journey of self-discovery and healing is something many of us can relate to. We all possess a unique power within us, but life’s trials often knock us off course. They have the tools, the courage to speak up and simply say it as it is, so you might feel seen, and understood and gain practical tools and techniques for self-discovery and personal growth during the changes we experience.
Say it Sister...
Jago - Emotional Intelligence: The Key to Authentic Personal Branding
We welcome Steve Richards and Ryan O'Keeffe of Jago. They believe that personal branding is about being the real you. It’s about authentic leadership. They are EQ experts, anthropologists, film makers and storytellers and Male Allies to women.
When women have male allies supporting them, they become braver, more visible and more authentic. This episode explores how personal branding and emotional intelligence serve as foundations for women's empowerment.
• Personal branding isn't about manufacturing an image but understanding who you truly are and communicating that authentically
• Women often focus on getting the job done rather than talking about their accomplishments, limiting their visibility
• Emotional intelligence serves as the foundation for authentic personal branding and effective leadership
• Women typically score higher on empathy and interpersonal relationships, which are valuable leadership qualities
• Self-awareness, followed by intentional action, is essential for developing a strong personal brand
• Male allies play a crucial role in supporting women to take their rightful seats at decision-making tables
• Breaking taboos like openly discussing menopause helps create supportive environments where all can thrive
Please keep showing up, using your status, your currency, and showing the world who you are. Use your voice – journal, speak, or sing out loud – however you do it, we hope you join us in saying it, sister.
EQ Report
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryan-okeeffe/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/steve-richards-/
Hello and welcome to the Say it Sister podcast.
Speaker 2:I'm Lucy and I'm Karen, and we're thrilled to have you here. Our paths crossed years ago on a shared journey of self-discovery, and what we found was an unshakable bond and a mutual desire to help others heal and live their very best lives.
Speaker 1:For years, we've had open, honest and courageous conversations, discussions that challenged us, lifted us and sometimes even brought us to tears. We want to share those conversations with you. We believe that by letting you into our world, you might find the courage to use your voice and say what really needs to be said in your own life.
Speaker 2:Whether you're a woman seeking empowerment, a self-improvement enthusiast or someone who craves thought-provoking dialogue, join us, as we promise to bring you real, unfiltered conversations that encourage self-reflection and growth.
Speaker 1:So join us as we explore, question and grow together. It's time to say Say it, sister. Welcome to Say it, sister. The podcast where we dive into deep feminine leadership, empowerment and the truth about what it's really like to thrive as a woman in today's world. And we're talking, bizarrely, to two men about it Sound weird? Well, not at all, because actually, when we have male allies around us on our side, supporting us and cheering us on, we become even braver, bold, bolder, more visible and more authentic.
Speaker 1:We also need to hear from men about why it's also important to support women, because a lot of men don't know how and a lot of women don't feel comfortable accepting it. So the men in question are Steve Richards and Rydo Keith from Jago, a personal branding agency that gets it. They helped Karen to show up in her own personal style. So we're talking feminism, we're talking personal branding, emotional intelligence, with me and Karen and two incredible men. So together we're going to explore how and why it's so important to support women, how emotional intelligence is your superpower and why developing your personal brand isn't just about visibility. It's also about taking up space, claiming your seat at that table. So, as always, I'm delighted to be here with you, karen, and I know you have some comments before we go a little bit deeper.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's talk about what's going on in the world right now and also in our own country. You know, when I look at the stats and I look at the complexity, I see things like women leaving their jobs because of menopause. It's one in ten, which is a lot of women. There's a gap, you know, with executive roles in the workplace, with one in six women holding those jobs and, as we know, you know, many women don't actually apply for senior roles if they can't tick all the boxes.
Speaker 2:And then, when I think about emotional intelligence, I think about the fact that women are so emotionally intelligent, yet we don't quite know how to show it and we're not really encouraged to bring it forward. And so for me, working with, with Jago and Steve and Ryan was really really wonderful, because they actually, you know, do a measurement around emotional intelligence and I think I went off the chart on that one, you know and it's just this idea of us being able to be emotional, be ourselves, show up in the world, and actually we've got seats at the tables that are waiting for us, and I think sometimes it's just about finding our inner confidence, you know, working through the things that limit us or where we tell ourselves that we can't do it or we're not good enough or, you know, the world's not ready for us. It's like overcoming all of that so that we can show up, we can be visible, we can have our voices. And personal branding can sound a little bit, um, like what is personal branding, and does that mean I need to adopt a mask? And actually the reality is, you know, it's about us showing who we are within the context of the work that we do. So thank you so much, you know, guys, for you know, showing up in the world, showing me, you know, that I can be me and just helping me, you know, take this journey and take my work forward in the world. I'm so delighted to welcome you to our Say it Sister podcast, anything that you want to say.
Speaker 3:Just an absolute pleasure to be here. It's a nice introduction. Just an absolute pleasure to be here. It's a nice introduction. We've all got an important story to tell, no matter who we are, what our background is. We believe everyone is a living story and they've got an important story to tell and it's an opportunity to learn from each other by telling that story and listening to that story. You guys might call it taking space, holding space, but being a great listener, being a great communicator and having that self-belief to show who you truly are. But first you need to understand who you truly are and that's a complex one. So maybe we'll get into that today.
Speaker 4:Lovely to be here, really nice to be here. Really nice to be here. I think one of the hardest things to achieve is to be our true selves, and that is certainly a work in progress. I think you landed upon EQ. I think that gives us at least a framework to try, but it's very difficult when the world wants us to be something different at times, and so to hold true and to be brave and to be authentic is a lifelong endeavour, and, you know, my hope is that we can support people to try to be more conscious around that and to be more intentional. And so we're really privileged to basically go deep with our clients, and this is a two way street. We we get to learn from you, karen, and our wonderful clients, and I know I'm particularly grateful for that. I know my wife is very grateful for that, for the secondhand conversations that she's privy to or the education that I get exposed to. So it's a delight to be here. Thank you for the invite.
Speaker 1:I'm so glad to meet you. I've heard so much about you and I can only talk about my own story about becoming more visible, and I think when I worked in the corporate space I was visible because I was a leader and yet I was my full self. I couldn't be any other way. Yet I used to wear a uniform of grey and beige and black, trying to fit in, and every time we had one of those peer reviews or one-to-ones and they would always give you feedback and the statistics are there that generally with women, when we get feedback, it's very much personal rather than about the job.
Speaker 1:And I think back of how I ended up becoming smaller and smaller and smaller, trying to fit into other people's ideals of how I should show up. And since leaving and going on my own journey, literally I am full colour. I, you know, express myself and I only am moved to show up online when I feel like I am truly living and embodying who I am. And you know, sometimes I just don't want to talk, I want to write. Sometimes I want to show up and just be off the cuff, and I think that's part of that what people have learned to know and trust about me that I show up when I need to, when I've got something to say, and that kind of feels like my brand and I'm unapologetic. However, that's just my personal take. I want you, ryan and Steve, to tell me why is personal branding? Well, what is it? But secondly, why is it so important for us women? Why is personal branding well, what is it? But secondly, why is it so important for us women?
Speaker 4:what is personal brand?
Speaker 4:It's a big question because there's two parts to the phrase or the or the term personal and brand, and the brand part can feel quite manufactured and business like, and, and the personal part is quite human and fleshy, right, and so it's an interesting term in itself and it can be misunderstood quite often.
Speaker 4:We like to see it as as being your authentic self to the outside world and also to everywhere you walk, walking the walk, and this is about representing what you stand for, highlighting your commercial value and ultimately attracting the right people that you can serve. So that's how we see personal branding less of the influencer style, marketing or the influencer style that you might see out there, or the wannabe celebrities or the sort of vanity game that a lot of people play, or PR for people. This is around us stepping up as leaders and standing for something that we believe in, and so it's understanding that it's a journey of discovering what are those things that we believe in. Journey of discovering what are those things that we believe in, what are the things that matter to us and how can we connect that to a commercial strategy, because it needs to. It needs to support the growth of us as professionals, but also, you know, serve people in a meaningful way. So so we like to see it as scaling our reputations to increase our commercial opportunities.
Speaker 1:But that means women need to become visible, and we've always been told to hide away. So why is it really important for women in particular you know the women that you work in to show up authentically?
Speaker 4:For me, I think the big picture is levelling the playing field. I think that's the key for me. I think the big picture is level leveling the playing field. I think that's the key for me. I think for so long now, we've had, uh, the share of voice, if you like, quite dominated by men, men in business.
Speaker 4:I even had this conversation with my wife this morning. I asked her the same question because I wanted to hear her opinion um, and she felt that this, this, this place in business, has been very male dominated, and so there's a narrative out there for for women to to not be as focal, and I think we need to change that, and I think you know the opportunity to to raise the profile of, you know, more women and more women to raise their profile. We can have, um, more diversity in our thinking and our views and opinions, and we can educate both men and women at the same time. So I think I think for me, it's about levelling the playing field, having a share of voice, and ultimately, that's going to affect the way we think and behave and shape society as a whole, and it certainly can shape culture and business, because I think that's one of the most powerful ways in order to shape the way people think and behave.
Speaker 4:It's within business, and it takes me back to that time where we met Simon Sinek. Me and Steve met the famous orator at an event and we talked to him about what we wanted to do and our endeavors around being more purposeful, and he said if you're going to do it, do it in business, because that's where the people are. So if we, if we want to do it with balance, then I think we need to, you know, have more, uh, female leaders, raise their profile and take up the share of voice. Yeah, and it's you know.
Speaker 2:Have more female leaders raise their profile and take up the share of voice yeah, and it's, you know, similar to what we're realizing as well when we are in the business world and we are in the corporate space. The impact that we can have is really great, because when we're, you know, there at the top table or working with women at the top table, they are very much driven by purpose and by change and wanting to do, you know, things that you know are not just for them but are actually, you know, in service of, and this whole different energy comes through and you could call it, you know, in a way, it's almost like about community and it's about relationships, and so what I see is that these women that are in these seats are very, very focused on huge impact and change. So, without those women taking those seats, we find ourselves maybe just thinking more of just around the commerciality of business, and so I agree with what you're saying. You know women in those seats will make a big change. But also, what I've noticed is that, you know, as a woman myself and also working with women, they tend to focus on getting the job done.
Speaker 2:So it's all about the job and, in terms of like telling people what they're doing, that's actually much harder and I definitely suffered with that as well. You know of like, well, I'm doing the work, but I don't know if I want to be out on social media telling everyone that I'm doing the work because I want to be doing the work as opposed to talking about the work that I'm doing. So that was definitely a barrier of mine and something that I'd sort of shut off, and you've both helped me to, you know, realize that I need to tell these stories of this amazing work that's going on, um, because that adds its own energy out in the world and it's inspiring. So, thank you, anything you want to add to that.
Speaker 3:I think there's definitely social cultural complexities. I would look at it like that because of being an anthropologist there's different social cultural contexts and histories which have in different countries and also globally, that are quite challenging to unpick. And then you've got these um micro cultures within different sectors, for example. Uh, lucy, you were talking about being in a corporate environment, for instance. I think a lot of people feel like that, having to fit in, even with the attire that people wear. Um, but there's definitely like from an outsider looking in. Um, there's a lot for women to navigate in terms of systemic challenges and limitations on influence, what's their sphere of influence, and being able to do that with authenticity and impact. So, generally speaking, for every human being, that's what we want. So, generally speaking, for for every human being, that's what we want. We want them to feel at deeper self-awareness and then do something about it. And to do something about it takes a lot of courage, especially if, for instance, lucy, you want to wear bright colored clothes in a sea of gray and black in the corporate environment because you're you're putting your head above the parapet, you're there's a degree of vulnerability about putting yourself out there. Um, there's definitely stereotypes to for everyone to face, but particularly with women. It seems like women are often judged by these double standards you're either competent or likable. So what you were saying there, karen, was about being competent and like making sure that you're really good at the job and you're doing doing that job. I think with the advent of social media, we've all fallen into this trap of wanting to be liked um and this whole likability thing um. The advantage with having a strong personal brand or, as Ryan said, you could term it a reputation is that it helps you, enables you to shape perception on your own terms. When we talk about empowerment, it's like being able to tell our own story, um in a confident way, rather than others, uh, telling it for us. I think the visibility issue, um, I think it's easy for certain groups of people to be overlooked, and again we talk about um. One of the key things about investing in reputation building and personal branding is to boost your visibility and that enables you to not be overlooked, because it increases visibility. And if you increase your visibility, then that's going to open more doors to leadership, or it could be funding or increasing your sphere of influence. I think what's really important.
Speaker 3:What r Ryan touched upon is. It's not about ego. It's really it's about access and the different groups that have had limited access to, say, positions of leadership. It enables you to go on the radar rather than under the radar through that sort of visibility, and to do it with authenticity. There's so many lived experiences that we have as individuals which can actually give us a leadership edge and, by telling your own story, that enables not only to inspire others to be, but be able to build trust. And and that's the currency at play here with your reputation building is you're wanting to, um, build trust and earn respect, and for too long, certain groups, women included, have been disrespected. So it's like, how can we increase that respect but it not just being purely about competence?
Speaker 3:Um, interestingly, as you were doing that introduction, I was thinking what are the personal brands that have really inspired me? And I think, because I'm a cause inspired person, um, I think of Anita Roddick, and she was an absolute trailblazer, like rest in peace, like what she did was amazing in business, an incredible female leader that was inspired by her cause and that had incredible permutations through all different levels of contemporary society within Britain at that time, and I think she's left an incredible impact and legacy. And then the other one, because I've lived and spent a lot of time in Kenya. I don't know if you've heard of Wangari Mathai, but she is an incredible political activist and she did re-greening in africa, like she created a green belt movement. So she's like top, uh personal brand, top reputation for like environmentalism um across africa.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, look, the other thing um before before I just open the floor back up again is around confidence.
Speaker 3:I think confidence is something that ebbs and flows, it comes and it goes and I think we all experience highs and lows of confidence.
Speaker 3:But I think, maybe because of the systemic challenges I don't know, but there seems to be from what we've seen of working closely with both men and women is that there seems to be um, if we speak in generalization, like an overly low self-evaluation and low, low, lower self-regard um in emotional intelligence.
Speaker 3:One of those key areas is self-perception and self-regard is one of them and that can hinder or lower people's confidence and that can hold people back from putting themselves out there. So I think one of the key things is to deepen self-awareness and understand what are your strengths, what is your commercial value, and then when you're ready to put yourself out there. If you do it from that place and you feel like you're contributing, then that can build confidence and it can build the momentum and then it can give you more encouragement to put yourself out there and increase your visibility and it can deepen that resilience. Because when you're under scrutiny and, let's face it, women often are that clear personal brand helps you to be anchored in your values, in your purpose and less so on on public opinion yeah, and I do think there is a greater risk for women to show up, like you're talking to that point now.
Speaker 2:And I do hear stories. Like you know, a woman makes a mistake and loses her job, whereas if it was done by a man he would keep his job. And I hear those stories and I hear have those conversations and I just think, wow, and so it makes sense why we would want to hide and not show up, because we don't want to be criticized and we don't want to stand out too much. And yet there's also a huge cost to not taking the floor and not taking our space and, you know, claiming our voices, because that erodes us on the inside. And I have got to the point at this point.
Speaker 2:I'm 48. A lot's happened in my life. I've got to the point where I think, sod it, you know you're damned if you do, you damned if you don't. You may as well do it. And if you know, whatever the consequences might be, at least I'll be true to myself and I feel like that is the essence for me. It's like I'm being true to myself in a way that people can connect with.
Speaker 2:That has impact. Um, I'm just not prepared to a little bit like Lucy talking about, you know, the grey clothes and the black clothes. There's something in me that's like, yeah, I've sort of come off the shelf a little bit and I've stepped out. And I'm still stepping out and it's a process for me, but I'm so glad I'm doing it because I feel like it's authentic, you know, and and I feel like people might like it or they might not like it, but a lot of people do like it, and there's something that had to just be done for me personally on the inside, you know, no more hiding and lots of taking up space. So you know, that's what's coming through for me. I think there's a huge cost to not owning who we are and talking about our work and sharing that with the world.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, we're grateful of that. Both Ryan and I have got daughters. When we look at Anita, when we look at Wangari, we look at Maya Angelou. These are trailblazers. So the fact that you're showing up it's around, partly driving cultural change, and we need that in order to bring the next generation through. So they're looking up at the mothers, the aunties, the grandmothers that are driving this cultural change, because it's you that's redefining leadership and creating space for others to follow lovely, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And talk to us about emotional intelligence, because this is, I know, an area where women do score off the chart. Yet there's also this little bit of uncomfortableness with showing emotion, because we don't want to be too emotional, but we do want to be a little bit, and again it's just like how much is too much? You know, and and you guys, you put that into the work that you do, and that's one of the reasons why I hired you in the first place, because I was like, right, great, let's do this journey. Talk to us about that. You know. Why is it so important for personal branding?
Speaker 4:I've been fascinated with emotional intelligence for the last 15 years and specifically the correlation between consciously using our EQ and having healthier interactions and relationships with others, because there's a sense of understanding ourselves but also the people that we're communicating with. So I think, if we translate that into the importance of personal brand, you know the whole idea is to build trust and respect with our audience, and we do that by deepening our own understanding and being able to communicate that effectively and therefore people understanding where they are with us. And also, you know, the ability to put ourselves in other people's shoes, which is conducive really to good outcomes, better relationships, improve cultures, and so we use eq really as the the foundations of, of authenticity, because this is about saying am I prepared to look myself in the mirror? I look at all of the stuff that comes with that the good, good, the bad and the ugly and then do I have the courage to actually do something about it? For me, that's authenticity. That is it Right. What to know? Who am I? What do I need to improve? I'm flawed in every way. I'm learning all the time. Right. I come from a very male dominated background and now I'm surrounded, 20 years later, by more females in my household than males, so I'm learning all the time on how to adapt and understand and be better at being a help to those people around me, and EQ really plays a major part in that, because if you're not self-aware and you don't know how to express yourself, then how can you walk the walk with your personal brand? You're being blind to it really. There's a sense of ignorance, and they're the people that are creating damage all around them. We want conscious people to turn up and show up in a way that's healthy to themselves and all of those around them.
Speaker 4:Just a bit of detail. We've actually done some analysis on people's EQ and we've assessed I think we've got data points for around 520 different leaders. These are leaders specifically, different leaders. These are leaders specifically and there are some clear differences between male and females. Results the overall EQ is similar, slightly more for females, but where it's remarkably different is on the empathy scale. We're seeing a much higher score come from female leaders when it comes to empathy and interpersonal relationships, which would lean into those relationships that we talk about within business the ability to build culture, the ability to bring people together and not just innovate and solve problems and solutions. We need that, and actually men score slightly higher on that scale. But have we gone too far that way? Have we become too efficient in business? Have we become almost addicted to solving problems and innovating and lost our humanity in the process? That's a question that I can't answer, but it's something I think about um constantly. So for us, you can't build a an authentic personal brand without the basis of starting your own emotional intelligence journey.
Speaker 1:I've got to say that I think Karen and I know the answer to that, because we talk about this so much and the reality is we need the balance and when you've got it all too much, one way it gets out of balance. If it was only females leading, it would be. You know very much about empathy and relationships, but less about the results. And actually when you bring both together within ourselves, but equally within the boardroom, within the working environment, that's when actually pure brilliance for humanity can actually take place.
Speaker 1:And interestingly, I do a lot of work on emotional intelligence too, and that it isn't a man, woman thing. It's definitely a personal thing. But, yes, there's definitely some traits that women and men find much easier. But then I also see that some people get it theoretically, they get it from a mind point of view, but then they're like but I am caring. I'm like, yeah, but it's a different kind of caring to somebody who's got real IQ. You know EQ, you're an IQ person, this is an EQ person. You just see the world differently and part of the emotional intelligence is being able to say and you see it it differently, and let me learn what's it like in your shoes, so that we can work better together, and so I love talking about emotional intelligence, and I just have to leave you with this one anecdote of an engineering director who came to me to develop his emotional intelligence and he couldn't get it. He said have you not just got a process I can follow?
Speaker 1:I'm just like it doesn't work like that, but I wanted to understand a little bit more about almost some practical tips about how I, karen, everybody can improve their personal brand, and I just wanted to share a bit of an anecdote with you from my own personal journey.
Speaker 1:Now I have recently discovered I have ADHD and it answers so many of those questions that I had going around in my head and I had.
Speaker 1:I did a lot of personal brand work a few years ago and I even had my colours done, you know, 15 years ago, and what I found for me as somebody with ADHD is it just added more clarity to my life, just like, oh, this is who I am, these are the colours I like, this is what I take a stand for. And once I'd really nailed my personal brand, it just took away all the questioning. I could show up without having to figure out every morning you know what, what am I going to do, how am I going to show up. It just reduced a lot of stress for me, basically and in turn, because I could then be calmer and trust myself more. It meant that other people trusted me. So I guess one part of my next question is do you see that a lot. I guess one part of my next question is do you see that a lot, that you know, when people totally get their own personal brand and reject it, do you see that it just calms their brains almost?
Speaker 3:And, secondly, any tips. There's a famous quote from a guy called Ralph Ellison that says when I understand who I am, I can be finally free. So we go through a process of socialization, from being a small baby in order to learn how to fit in, and so who we are through our lives, through different stages of our lives, which obviously changes, like when you go through your childhood, being in school, going into a career, moving different places, having children, a family. If you do, um, you, you go through a process of evolution. So who you were isn't who you are and who you are now isn't who you're going to be in the future. If you've got a good growth game or if just life happens, you know, I mean like I don't know there could be a health crisis that occurs in your life or whatever. So I think the process there is no end game of self-awareness or emotional intelligence or personal branding um, like, we're constantly evolving, like that rolling river. So it's something that we've got to ensure that we're constantly creating time in terms of a tip for introspection and for reflection, slowing down, disconnecting and going in on some some introspection and reflection work, but also consulting others in terms of how we're being perceived because we might have a bit of a warped self-perception. So you want to get this balance between introspection but then also seeking feedback and then sort of marrying the two. And when we do emotional intelligence assessments with people, part of that is also 360 eq because, coming back to that point, you might have an overly high self-evaluation. Um, you might have an overly low self-evaluation, but when you piece it together with a benchmark about how others perceive you, then you can get a clearer picture of where you're at and potentially where you need to be and what you need to work on.
Speaker 3:I think when we go on a coaching journey with our clients on EQ, we encourage them to do journaling and we have certain frameworks to assess situations to go right. What was this act, event activating event, what were the feelings it created, and then to what extent are those true and it's real? And you debate it and in EQ we talk about reality testing, seeing things objectively as they are. So it's almost like a sense check what's going on is are these the right feelings, is it really happening, how I think it's happening, and then coming up with a series of actions that you can do, because none of this self-awareness is really worth anything if it doesn't change behavior. So the implementation part is important because then it results in higher performance, whether that's within the commercial realm or whether that's in the personal realm. So deepen self-awareness, do something about it and then see how things develop and change. And journaling is a good way of processing that and also speaking to someone to work through these issues.
Speaker 2:We're all we're. Both myself and Lucy are huge journaling fans and it's one of our go-tos, you know, and I agree with you in terms of awareness, without action, is is disconnected um 100%, and I feel like we're all on the same in a way. I always have these podcast conversations. I think we're all doing the same thing in a way. We're just doing it slightly differently, you know, but we've got the same objectives and we're working towards the same thing in a way. We're just doing it slightly differently, you know, but we've got the same objectives and we're working towards the same goals, and that always gives me such a sense of hope.
Speaker 2:Um, I know myself and Ryan share optimism as one of our, you know core values, and these moments for me are so important and so precious because it reminds me that there are so many of us in the world doing such amazingly important work and really trying to dial, you know some ways.
Speaker 2:Dial it forward In other ways, maybe dial it back a little bit, because I agree with you, you know that the need for change, innovation, you know. Look at our phones, look at the way we're living our lives. We've become so fast and we can do things. So, simply, really what we're all looking for on a basic level is that human connection and that you know the opportunity to talk and feel, and you know, come together and be together in a different way so that we're seen and we're heard and we're valued, you know. So for me, the essence of that comes through everything that you do and everything that we do, so, um, you know we're all on the right path in a way, um, do you have anything to share on the practical tips, ray, before we jump into high impact?
Speaker 4:No, as you were saying, I was just smiling because my two girls remind me about my own EQ if I'm not quite behaving as I should. They're like Dad, what about your EQ? Hang about? It's not great behaviour. So my kids teach me so much. They teach me how to be human and how to be a dad and how to be present, and so you know when the world gets noisy, actually I can go back to being a parent and just tune into what they want from me, because sometimes they're the leveler that I need, and my two girls particularly are the ones that remind me around my EQ. So I find that funny.
Speaker 4:Practical tips Download our personal branding report. You can put it in the show notes. It's got all of the tips in there. It's got real insights from real leaders, shares, some also some stories about their own journeys. But if you want some practical, step by step tips, it's all in there journeys. But if you want some practical step-by-step tips, it's all in there.
Speaker 4:But I think you know in essence it's understanding by getting some truth tellers around you and then doing some work, some assessments and introspection and taking action and seeing what works. And I think I know I'm repeating the theme here. But once you, once the fog starts to disappear and you realize who you are and you get that clarity, the confidence builds. I know from my own experience of putting myself out there all of the self-doubt, the imposter syndrome why would want to anyone hear from me as a college dropout, an uneducated guy, that's just. And then you end up speaking at universities in front of hundreds of people and then suddenly you, your dream becomes a reality because you've taken action and you've stuck to what you want to talk about and what you're known for. I think that's really important. So identifying that earlier on is really powerful to create a credible, likeable, respected personal brand and reputation.
Speaker 2:Thank you, beautiful as always so let's, you know you're talking about your kids and I'm sort of connecting back into my kid here and you know my child asked me about the mani pause. She calls it the mani pause, um, you know, all the time, and it brings me into the work that I'm doing and you know what I see in the world, in that you know, where companies back women and they back women's issues, a whole new thing starts to happen, and it actually includes innovation and it also includes empathy. And I want to talk a little bit about Bayer Consumer Health, who have created a brand new range for women in menopause called Canis Menno, and this has been truly, truly inspiring for me because it was an idea that was, you know, just a basic idea, and now you know we can get products on shelf that really, really support women and it's tackling the taboos and it's tackling the issues and it's come through, because there are women at the top that are saying we need to do something about this. Now you know it's also there's also a commercial element to that as well, of course, but it's just so inspiring for me to see we have a problem.
Speaker 2:What are we going to do about it? How can we move the dial forward, how can we make money? And it brings all of these things together, and so I wanted to just really pull Steve in here, because we've done a lot of work with the m series, which is my menopause video series, and I just would love to hear your views. You know why is this happening now, why now, women have been going through menopause forever. Um, you know, what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 3:being right. It's uh, it's a long overlooked market. There is definitely a commercial opportunity, but there's also like a social, cultural shift around its visibility, I think. Look, menopause affects every woman, but it's historically being ignored and happened in the shadows. I have conversations with my sisters about it, but I don't remember any conversations from uh like in the house or anything, or from my mum or anything like this, or it was just like the cliched sort of stuff, like I'm getting hot flushes, but it wasn't an open conversation. We're like in our mid to late 40s, so maybe it's a generational, maybe now's the time where it's less taboo, maybe now's the time where it's, uh, less taboo. And women, obviously it needs to increase, but this whole suffering in silence due to stigma and lack of education. I think now we're on the cusp of something bubbling up and changing um, the thing about, um, the Bayer stuff, the Canis, menno. It's like you've got science-backed products, but then they've also got this educational hub, so you've got like the product, which is the thing, that's the actual thing that can help, but then creating the awareness at the same time. I think that's a nice combination of like product and education to deepen that awareness.
Speaker 3:Look, there's a soaring demand as well for these products. So I was in tesco's the other day and saw like the mt section and clearly labeled and there was information to go along certain products and there was grouped products. So the visibility on on the high street, if you like, is starting to emerge. Um, consumers, what do they want? I mean from a commercial perspective? Um, they want targeted stuff, right, and some want non-hormonal, some will take the hormonal. So I think having options is a great thing in consumerism and I think that will open it up and that should open up more conversations amongst people as they go found this great product and the word of mouth will start to to increase.
Speaker 3:Definitely, cultural shifts so we need to do more around cultural shifts and breaking the taboo. But even in the last few years it might be because of the people that we attract and who we follow it's on our radar. Like I can't open up LinkedIn without some personal brand, um talking about the menopause. So, like ryan said, like we've learned loads which has helped us with our own partners and our own families, um, so I think more open, honest conversations and and look, there seems to be like a bit more of a sort of a corporate commitment to health equity as well.
Speaker 3:So I think some of the stuff that we've done with you, karen, is interesting around looking at the talent drain of all these incredible women that companies are losing because they're not understanding the issue and not creating an environment which is supportive in order to retain that talent. So yeah, market growth, consumer demand, we've got digital innovation, we've got social change, we've got corporate responsibility, and then we've got brands like beya stepping up, not just with products but with this educational sort of purpose, and then you're getting influential people like like davina mccall, like out there, so it's becoming more mainstream.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, yeah, it's exciting times and I find that, um, you know as soon as I say my age, it's hilarious. So, anywhere I go, if there's a woman and I say how I say my age, straight away she's into, like she starts telling me everything. She doesn't know what I do and the fact that I'm doing all this work in menopause. I love it. So it's almost like, and I love saying how old I am, because it's a taboo, so I'm like that's one that I'm actually owning where I'm going right, I'm going for this one because I'm just going to keep telling people my age and see what happens and it opens things up and you have great conversations and I walk away and it always makes me smile because I think you know that woman has probably been desperate to talk about this.
Speaker 2:And now we've just had a great conversation and I get everything she's saying, you know, and and I walk away. I don't know their name, but I know, I know their symptoms and their signs. You know, it's really really nice, without fixing, without any of that, and I just think women are just like you know, we're almost like desperate to talk about it and that's, you know, a huge change. I think's important. And as long as um, one person steps in first and you know, and that could be a man talking about it as well then there's like this energy that comes up and you sort of walk away and go feel a bit better. For that, you know.
Speaker 1:I don't think um without other women from our past um stepping up and becoming visible and finding their way in teams or in high profile positions on the media, etc.
Speaker 1:Etc. Those you know we still wouldn't be talking about the menopause, we wouldn't be talking about culture, we wouldn't be talking about mental health or any health in the workplace. And that speaks back to what we were saying right at the beginning about um diversity. Unless we can get other people into our common spaces, these conversations won't happen. So I'm so grateful to our four sisters who came before us um, who have got the platform, who have brought this in um and hopefully the work that you and I will do, karen, will then open it up to the next generation to do amazing work on wisdom and intuition and leading our full, authentic selves. So it's exciting, but it's almost like the sisterhood is coming back. These conversations about different stages of women's lives would always be spoken about 400 know, four or five hundred years ago, and then it became a scary place and it's almost like now we're allowing these conversations to come back and I'm so blooming grateful to be alive right now.
Speaker 2:Well, all I want to say is thank you for being allies, thank you for being part of my journey and our journey and, to all of those that were listening, for being part of their journey, because it's really important that we have men in our lives, um, who we can have, you know, really serious conversation.
Speaker 2:Sometimes we're celebrating, sometimes we're normalizing and sometimes we're just plain struggling, but we're all in it together and I love that. And I want to say, you know, thanks for your insights, thanks for the work that you do and thanks for helping me to show up fully and visibly. I am a work in progress, as I always say to you, and you always say we are all work in progresses, um, and I'm going to go off after this call and I'm going to do a post about menopause on LinkedIn, so please follow it. Um, if you're a woman listening to this, please keep showing up, please keep using your status, your currency and showing the world who you are, and until next time, it's time for us all to keep showing up, speaking up and saying it, sister so thanks for listening and we can't wait to welcome you next time.
Speaker 2:Until then, use your voice journal, speak or sing out loud, however you do it. We hope you join us in saying it sister.