Say it Sister...
Lucy and Karen, two 40-somethings, are always chatting about life, and all that it has to throw at them, and now want to share their raw, honest conversations with you. Their journey of self-discovery and healing is something many of us can relate to. We all possess a unique power within us, but life’s trials often knock us off course. They have the tools, the courage to speak up and simply say it as it is, so you might feel seen, and understood and gain practical tools and techniques for self-discovery and personal growth during the changes we experience.
Say it Sister...
Breaking Free from Good Girl Chains
We explore the concept of "good girl conditioning" and its profound impact on women's lives, examining how these deeply embedded societal messages shape our behaviors, emotions, and self-perception.
• Recognizing the gendered messages we received as children – the "don'ts" for girls versus boys
• Understanding how this conditioning manifests in people-pleasing, fear of disappointment, and difficulty setting boundaries
• Exploring the pendulum swing between "good girl" and "rebel" that many women experience
• Finding liberation in midlife through perimenopause and learning to trust your authentic voice
• Breaking the cycle with the next generation by celebrating qualities rather than compliance
• Practical ways to recognize when conditioning is driving your behavior
• Reclaiming your truth and living life on your terms without worrying about judgment
Be you always. With love.
Hello and welcome to the Say it Sister podcast.
Speaker 2:I'm Lucy and I'm Karen, and we're thrilled to have you here. Our paths crossed years ago on a shared journey of self-discovery, and what we found was an unshakable bond and a mutual desire to help others heal and live their very best lives.
Speaker 1:For years, we've had open, honest and courageous conversations, discussions that challenged us, lifted us and sometimes even brought us to tears. We want to share those conversations with you. We believe that by letting you into our world, you might find the courage to use your voice and say what really needs to be said in your own life.
Speaker 2:Whether you're a woman seeking empowerment, a self-improvement enthusiast or someone who craves thought-provoking dialogue, join us, as we promise to bring you real, unfiltered conversations that encourage self-reflection and growth.
Speaker 1:So join us as we explore, question and grow together. It's time to say say it, sister oh, hello everybody.
Speaker 2:we're back for another heartfelt conversation and we're delighted that you're joining us. This week we're going going to explore one of Lucy's favourite ever discussion topics the good girl conditioning. That part of us that believes that girls are supposed to be sugar and spice and all things nice. The part that whispers no when we want to speak up for ourselves or we want to take up space or ask for what we need. And it runs deep and for much of our lives it's been hidden and we want out that today. So let's go on a little bit of a journey. Were you that teenager who rebelled? Are you now in midlife and feeling like you're in a crisis? Or are you in perimenopause, like us, and wondering what you need and who you are? So this week we're going to invite you to remember who you are now. Are you wearing the good girl dress and what you're here to do and what you're here to say? Welcome, Lucy. Which dress are you wearing today? The authentic you or the good girl you?
Speaker 1:I'm definitely authentic because I'm not even wearing any makeup. Today I'm showing up full anti-good girl and, yeah, I've had a bit of a hectic morning in heady kind of work. So I'm really happy to be here reconnecting with a bit more authentic energy. And I've shared with you many times that this idea of the good girl, it just it's always been there in my mind because I don't think I've ever really felt like a good girl. I always felt like I was doing it wrong and questioning myself and trying to figure out why I don't fit in in that normal well, that traditional mould. But more recently I'm really diving really deep into it and a couple of months ago I went to a women's circle and the whole topic for those couple of hours was the good girl. And during one of the activities we all wrote a letter to our good girl with all of the messages that we received growing up and a lot of the women women were you must this, you must that, and for me it was all don't, don't do this, don't do that, don't behave like that, don't speak up, don't, don't show off, and it was like don't, don't, don't and it just made me realize that actually the conditioning I'd had was all about those don'ts and and I rarely had go be, go, fly, go, you know, and all these empowering, believing kind of messages, which then is no surprise that I'm one of the world's biggest champions of people being magnificent and radiant in their own power. So I think it's really important to join the dots, to recognise what conditioning you may be holding and just go on this bit of a journey with us. But before we do, I thought we better deconstruct, actually, what it really is. Now. I always remember growing up there were lots of don't, don't, don'ts, and then I think I was really aware back then that those weren't the same don'ts that my brother or my male cousins or the boys in the schoolyard were getting. They were getting very different don'ts and then. So I think I was always really consciously aware of it.
Speaker 1:But it's from the moment you're born really probably even before you're born you're started to be brought up in an image of what society expects you to be. So the little, the good little girl, you know there there be a good girl. You know that mindset, that mantra that we hear is drummed into us as soon as we're born. And you know, research shows that the way that girls are held as babies is different to the way that boys are. You know, boys are thrown around a little bit more and jumped on the knee and a bit more rough handled. The girls toys, you know, were given tea sets and little dollies with their little outfits and nappies, whereas the boys are given trucks and swords and, you know, building blocks and tool sets. And we were given the ballerina shoes and the little pretty outfits that were not allowed to get dirty or damaged. But the boys were given sports kits to to go running around in and tracky bottoms.
Speaker 1:And I even think about, you know, my, mine and my brother's bedroom. I had I'm going to age myself now but um, there was, uh, that uh Victoria Plum in the Pieru, um bedspread that all the girls seemed to have. And then my brother got superheroes. Yeah, I was like madly into Wonder Woman and I had the outfit, but I I never had the whole bedroom put to it, I don't know why, it probably just wasn't even available. And then, going on, I remember late 1980s, I was just about to go up to high school and I had my hair all chopped off. You know it was proper Princess Diane styley, and everyone was saying oh, your poor hair, oh, I can't believe you've cut it all off and you know it just.
Speaker 1:It's all these memories that stick in my mind. It's the conditioning from TV, it's the nursery rhymes, like that sugar and spice one. It's. It's the story of Lilith and Eve. Yes, all this conditioning. I just want to make it clear that I have nothing against trying to develop good human beings, good children. The good bit I don't really have an issue with, but I think it's when it becomes gendered and it's so subtle and I just want everyone to be a good person, not a good girl and a good boy, and therefore it means something differently. And I know, and I look back now and I've caught myself saying good girl to my girls. I don't know if I'd have had a boy, whether I'd have done it differently. So you probably done it with your own conditioning. So I've talked a lot. Where are you at with it?
Speaker 2:Karen. Well, I want to say yes to all of that, and I was on a panel last week and I was talking a little bit about this, but I was talking about it from the place of emotion and how you know, girls are allowed to be emotional, but they're not allowed to be too emotional. And girls are not allowed to get angry, whereas it's fine for boys to get angry. And so, even right down to our emotions, we're sort of selecting the ones that we can own and show and the ones that we have to distance ourselves from, suppress and all the rest of it. So it becomes very confusing, because an emotion is an emotion and it's telling us that something's happening and you know it wants our opinion. So, even if we go down to that level, there is gendered emotions, which is absolutely insane to me.
Speaker 2:Um, in my own life, I've always tried to bring in balance and choice. Um, you know, with my own daughter it's the same, and when I look out there I just see pink, you know, or blue, which of course is a stereotype. Um, you know, always try to give her choice, but ultimately she's more attracted to the pink, and that's how it is. And you know, she's a girly girl like me, but she's more boisterous, she's a bit wilder than I am. She's definitely like more extreme and her outward. You know she's more extrovert than me as well. So I look at her and I'm like there she is doing her thing. But when I get triggered, normally through a safety issue or something like that, because I want her to be able to run wild and have those experiences, I don't want her to be contained, um, but I also want to teach her the right thing. So it's like that balance between the two, which can be quite complex as a mother, that I pull rich in as my husband and say, okay, can you go to this with her? Can you do? You want to take a climb in today? So they go off together and they have that experience together. And I don't need to be part of that.
Speaker 2:And I learned that because I just thought my nervous system is just going to be too extreme and I don't want to pass my anxiety on to her, knowing that I already probably have passed on some of my anxiety to her. So it's like a constant checking in, like with me. It's like you know, the way I was brought up was very much the good girl and you know I did my absolute best to embody that and to make that real and to become that good girl. But you know, I think you can get away with that kind of behavior for so long until eventually you can't contain it anymore, and we'll talk about that a little bit later.
Speaker 2:Um, when it comes back to where I am right now, I'm definitely more of the rebel than I've ever been, but it comes from a deeper place and it's, I feel like it's like connected to purpose, it's connected to my value, it's connected to just justice and like that's just not right. So I'll be a rebel with a cause, you know, whereas before I think I was just. You know, as I got to teenage years, I was just rebellion because the container I was in was so small and so tight that I couldn't breathe. And I feel like I am doing my best to not do that with my own child. Um, I don't really care this is gonna sound a bit weird, but in some ways I don't really care whether she it's like the good, bad thing, I'm like whatever, as long as she's happy and as long as she learns that she's a valued human being and that she has a voice.
Speaker 2:I think that's where I go and that these are the things that I want. I wanted to be. Obviously I wanted to be. You know, I don't want to be a horror out there in the world doing awful things, of course not. But there are other things that are really important that I add value to, and definitely having a voice is probably number one for me.
Speaker 1:What about you? I have a memory of well. First memory is I went on a hen do in London when Bella, my eldest, was probably about a year old and I was in can't remember which area, but there was a really funky marketplace and there was this handmade dress for this little girl, um, marketplace, and there was this handmade dress for this little girl and it was so lovely and it was basically an a-line cotton skirt, uh dress, and it was black but it had, um, an embroidered bright yellow sunflower, which is my favorite flower. And, uh, I came home and put her in it and she looked amazing and I remember people like going, you don't put girls in black. I'm like why it's got a huge flower on it? It's a dress you can see. It's traditionally feminine, um, but it was like that color, you can't give that to a girl. Yeah, I looked around and there were plenty of boys wearing black t-shirts.
Speaker 1:And then years later, when Evie was probably about six, she was mad into vampires. Now this is a child who was all sweetness and light and she's just a little ray of sunshine, but she went through a vampire phase and she would only wear black for about three months. And again, the comments that I had about her clothes are like but she's picking them, this is what she wants to wear. She doesn't see black as anything, it's just the color of darkness, and so I let her go with it.
Speaker 1:And it was I think it was at those points, having two girls that I realized the comments that I probably had all my life and I was hearing them through adults ears and going no, even things now like oh, that I don't sit, like that, it's not very ladylike, she can sit how she wants to sit. You know what I mean. It's like all of those little things and I'm, I guess, I'm hyper aware of all of those little messages that are so flippant that we don't even realize or catch ourselves saying them. And are there any of those like comments that you can remember hearing?
Speaker 2:I just had a lot of conversations about be a good girl. I needed to be a good girl. It was a lot of that. So there was, there was a pressure on it, you know, like good then. Then then that's going to have a really big impact on my parents, because they both work full-time. So, you know, I I was, I was brought up in a home where both parents were working, so, which which was gave me loads of positives, by the way, because it was like I learned to be entrepreneurial from a young age and I wanted to earn money from a young age and, you know, I had a vision and I knew that I would be out there and in the world doing my thing, because I saw that role models.
Speaker 2:However, on the other side of it, it was like that they were kind of dependent on me to not create any problems for them, um, so that they could then, you know, do their jobs and all the rest of it. So it was like yin and yang, I suppose, isn't it? But I feel like there was a lot of pressure on me, like I grew up very, very early and very young anyway, and I certainly felt responsible all my life. I always felt responsible and I didn't ever really feel like I could go wild, and the times when I did let myself go, it didn't normally go down very well, so it was almost like, okay, so this is not. You know, this is how I have to be. I have to conform, I have to do the right thing.
Speaker 2:I was a little bit like a little doll, you know, not with my friends. When I was with my friends, you know I had freedom and I would run wild in the fields. And you know, not with my friends. When I was with my friends, you know I had freedom and I would run wild in the fields. And you know my mum and dad were never checking on where I was. So it was nothing like that. Like the way I am with Catalina, it was very different. I had my own key to the house. I was just like left to my own devices in a way. So that was one thing.
Speaker 2:But then, when I think about when I was with my parents, I was like a little doll. I was like, you know, I'd be there all dressed up and there was always like long hair and ribbons in my hair and would just sit still and just like by my mom and think I was so bored out my mind most of the time. No, so I've got a vivid imagination, so I'm dreaming, I'm like thinking of places I'm going to, I'm doing all of that, which I've always been a bit like that, but I really feel like I cultivated it during so much time being spent with adults as a young child, going up to sort of, you know, primary school. I'm an only child as well, so there was no other children in the house, so you know I relied on adults a lot of the time, so it taught me good things. It also yeah, it also that conforming piece is so strong for me and I think there's something there about don't disappoint.
Speaker 1:Because you know, the message is don't disappoint, conform, be a good girl. And I certainly remember growing up with this fear of disappointing, to the point where, even as an adult, you know the perfectionism within me and I'm not a perfectionist, but I always want to make sure I do my um or make sure that work is on time or um. I don't like make any mistakes because I don't want to disappoint whoever is my client or who. You know. If I'm looking after somebody else's child, I want to do the best as I can. Because it's this fear of, again, you're not a good mum, you're not a good friend, you're not a good da da, da, da, you know. Because again, it's that fear of disappointment which, again, I don't think my brother has ever demonstrated. He, he's a good bloke, he's morally a good bloke, but he's always put his own needs first. He hasn't had to worry in the same way about disappointing the family, because I don't think he was ever given those same messages.
Speaker 1:I do remember really vividly climbing trees, playing football and, like you, just being out of the house, swinging upside down on climbing frames, long bike rides out in the countryside, building dams and getting all muddy, and I definitely wasn't in those pretty dresses then, so I obviously had play clothes as such, and my dad was a builder and I some of my earliest memories are there, you know um, helping him lay bricks and playing with the putty and the cement. And my other dad was in engineering and manufacturing, so he'd take me to the factory. Um, I remember being in the boardroom and going, wow, I want to work here, um, and so I had this, you know, they took me to places and I don't think I was basically being groomed to be this traditional good girl. Um, I definitely had amazing role models, but still, I think I think my mum was of the generation where, you know, she was given pink jobs when she left school. Um, I think she went into hairdressing and then she did childminding and then she became a cook at school and eventually she turned that into her own business. So I'd see her doing all the business stuff.
Speaker 1:But again, it was still my mother's voice that I hear is the don't do this, don't do that, don't take up space, don't show off. Who do you think you are? Oh, you know, know, you're being a bit loud, lucy, it's all of those don't, don't, don'ts. That I hear and and I know she's not against me being amazing but again, it's that conditioning that's come down from years and years and years and I've really tried to raise my girls to be the opposite, um, so every time they say they want to do something, I just say yeah, there's no gendered stuff in there. And even like using the language of um. I was at um squirrels and we were doing like people who helped us and one of the male leaders kept saying be a policeman. I said police officer, be a fireman, be a fire officer. And I kept saying please don't use gendered language because it is conditioning it. So you know so subtly because we are people that those young children look up to, um, all the up to it was always he's.
Speaker 2:When we were growing up there was no he, she, um, they or anything like that. It was just everything you heard was through the male language and lens and pronoun, as simple as that. And my mum still uses that. So I hear it through her, you know, and I'm always correcting her. You know it's always if we go to the doctors it's always a he that we're seeing, um, that kind of thing. I'm like she, she, mom, she, um, you know. So, just not that. You know she's entitled to have that say on things, but I don't want it to filter through to Catalina. So I'm very, very aware of that and, you know, standing up for her.
Speaker 2:And I think the issue I have with the good and bad is that it's so extreme and if you're not a good girl then you're a bad girl, and that puts us in a very dangerous place and, knowing that, as human beings we're all very extreme anyway, so we tend to go from one side to the next. So it's like I definitely had this experience. You know, good girl, good girl, good girl, doing my best, you know the standards are really high, can't let it slip. I'm on that hamster wheel, like, and I'm managing it, and I'm managing it and managing it, and then something changes. Like hormones, I get hit, puberty or whatever you know, and then it's like can't do this anymore, like it's just too strong in me to to go against the good girl, so I go into the rebel and then I'm like fuck it, which is one of my slogans, actually has no middle ground, is there? It has a fuck it, for me, can be quite positive because it's like, okay, I've enough of that, now Fuck it, I'm not doing that anymore. However, when we go into the other extreme side of it, the yo-yo of that is so hard on our bodies. So it's like, you know, I'm at party on Friday, saturday, I'm doing yoga Sunday, monday, tuesday, and by the time I get around to a Thursday again, I'm ready for another sort of like wild, rebellious sort of, you know, getting into the weekend. That's exhausting and that's extreme. And when we throw in like relationships and we throw in friendships and we throw in you know, work, that's a lot and we can live in that pattern for such a long period of time.
Speaker 2:And I do believe that, you know, for me, I was like I was a rebel as a young person, pushing boundaries, never going too far though, because I'm a bit of a people pleaser and you know I like that. I like people to think nice things of me. So there's always that line for me that I know I'll never stray over. That. There's like an invisible line that pulls me back. However, I can go quite far.
Speaker 2:And then the workplace workplace. I was quite a badass by the time I got to know what I was really doing. When I was 28. I was quite a, you know. Yeah, I was. I was on the rebel side, but I was also doing great work and doing it positively. Um, so it was quite.
Speaker 2:People say, god, you were quite scary. And now I look back and I think, god, I really wasn't inside, but that was a persona that I was, you know, putting out into the world. And I feel like now you know I'm in perimenopause if I'm doing it, I want it to come from a good place, from within me. I'm not just doing it because I'm exhausted by the good girl. I'm doing it because I feel like there's something that's being channeled that's really important, that I'll stand up for, and that's what's really important to me. It's the place that it comes from, um, that drives my. You know that drives me in a certain way, as long as it's in alignment with something, that is something I value, or it's serving something. Doesn't matter if I'm good girl or bad girl. You know, it's Karen, it's.
Speaker 1:Karen, yeah, nobody should be judging who you are, and this is the whole point of like. So I said I don't, I don't get upset about the words good or bad, because I get it when you know. It's about morals, it's about fitting into your social circle and our parents were doing their best, just like their parents were, and we are doing our best. But now that I'm here, you know, in my midlife, and I'm looking at, well, who the hell gets to decide whether I'm living my life in a good way or a bad way? I'm not breaking any laws, I'm not bothering anyone, I'm happy. So I don't really care.
Speaker 1:And I think that's the bit where what my anti good girl thing now is, because I'm getting to that midlife girl thing now, is because I'm getting to that midlife and I'm like do you know what? I have spent my whole life trying to be a good ex, whatever you fill in the dot? Um. And you know and we were chatting about this at our um, our photo shoot a couple of weeks ago where I'd worn these killer heels that, um, I had from before Covid and I just don't wear them anymore because they hurt. So I'm just like, yes, they're beautiful shoes, but why the hell do women conform to this? Well, it's because that's what we're told.
Speaker 1:A good girl dress is like um, you know you wear the nice dress, but you wear these really painful shoes as well, because it makes you look pretty. I'm like what the hell are we doing? And I, honestly, I do think that, um, that photo shoot that we did brought up so much good girl, bad girl conditioning for me. Um, in so many different layered ways, even on the day when I was asked to put on certain outfits and felt great in those, but then to pose in a certain way, and I'm like well, who the hell does she think she is? It was all going on there. What was it like for you?
Speaker 2:Do you know, it was the easiest photo shoot I've ever done. Like the buildup was hard because of so much prep and I forgot how long you know these things take and the detail and all of that. So that was tough because it was a big admin challenge for me and just timing and all the rest of it. So that was hard. But when I was there I guess I said to the photographer afterwards I said never felt so myself in front of the camera, like before I'd have been like overthinking it all and really sort of yeah, I didn't do any of that. I just I actually don't. I mean, I literally like I didn't smile that much. I've used to be really smiling. I'm not smiling anymore. I still smile, of course, and I laugh a lot. So when it comes through, I think it comes through from a really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there was a lot of laughter deep and genuine place.
Speaker 2:You know, if I'm laughing, I'm smiling, it's because I really, I'm really feeling it. If I'm not feeling it, I'm not doing it. And that's like a really amazing feeling for me, because I've always been smiley and the press shoots that I've done with the same photographer, she's always said oh, you're always so smiley and, um, I'm not anymore. And I really like that about myself because that's, that is a true reflection of how I'm feeling. I'm not masking and I mean, there'll be days when I will mask. Of course. You know, sometimes we've got to show up and we do that because, um, we have to in a way to get through a situation, or you know so. But less of that for me for sure, and I do feel I got to the place where I don't know, people are just responding to me differently and they don't expect that of me, because that's not how I'm showing up.
Speaker 1:I'm so pleased because that that whole um, give us a smile, sugar and all of that kind of stuff it's just like, oh, it's so sickening. But I think we probably did that for many years. We wore this smile because, again, that's what's expected of girls and I think that was one of the things. I'm naturally a smiley person but equally, I like my smile. My face lights up when I smile, but I'm not always smiley and I think it was one of those pictures where she asked me to really sit in my power and at first and literally it was the first shot and I was so conscious of myself and I was like, well, where do I put my hands? And oh, my God, you know I'm looking very serious and stern and like I'm, you know.
Speaker 1:And anyway, after probably two or three seconds of me feeling really uncomfortable it felt like longer, but it was probably just two or three I just thought, hell, I'm going to go for this and my back went straight, my shoulders went back, I raised my head and the pictures that came back were majestic and it was that moment when I switched from who am I trying to be to who actually am I, that moment when I switched from who am I trying to be to who actually am I. And that's when I said a lot of this good girl conditioning was eroded and was really coming up for me because I kept shelving it and, you know, taking off those layers and I had so much fun. And the pictures, honestly they look amazing. I can't wait for us to release them into the world.
Speaker 2:I'm so proud of us because I feel like there's something about coming together and doing it with someone else. Yes, it's more fun, but it can also be more challenging, because you're trying to align all the time and you know, find where the sort of stretch is and where the challenge is. And I feel like both of us, through what we're doing together, we're having to face imposter syndrome. We're having to all these conditions that we've experienced in our lives that some of them are still present. Some are maybe so much or maybe they come up every now and then. You know, such as the Google condition and imposter syndrome. We're having to face that and literally the only way you can do it is to go through it. You can't do it any other way. You know, whilst we have that awareness of that, it's so incredibly true Because for me, that imposter, that kind of comes out.
Speaker 2:That's like fake it, fake it, fake it. Don't let anyone see um, because you don't deserve to be here now. I didn't feel that on the photo shoot, but that does come through for me. You know where I, and then I start to get anxious and you know my adrenaline's starting to move um, and I don't know how many years I need to be doing this thing for, or how many qualifications I need to get until I'm finally like, oh, ok, that's enough now. Like you're here and you're at the table and I've realized that and there might be little things that pop up where I get nervous, which is healthy. But no more imposter syndrome, no more of this sort of playing the game. You know, I'm not actually playing the game, I'm actually at the table you know, I'm not actually playing the game, I'm actually at the table.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, you are leading. You know, and if the you leading is faking it because you're so worried about what other people are going to think and what they're going to say and are you going to be good at this, no, just lead you. Both of us have got this vision of where we want to go and the right people will come along. And actually, if there's a load of people that don't like us, okay, and that's where the good conditioning is eroding, because before, even probably 10 years ago, we were probably still really worried about, well, what if people don't like us? We're like good, because we're not for everybody, and I wanted to just share something with you. That happened just this morning.
Speaker 1:Um and my eldest uh had got an email from her lecturer to say that, um, there was some issue at uni, so, um, the presentations are going to be postponed by a week. And she phoned me up in panic because she's like I don't know about any presentations, I haven't heard about that should, what should I do? And I was like well, I think you probably should ask questions about what presentation, go and get some facts. Anyway, she, she starts writing out this email, you know, and verbalizing it to me which is something that a lot of Gen Z do and they need to read it back and she said, hi, I'm really sorry, but blah, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 1:And I said, right, just cut the sorry because you're not sorry. Actually, what you want is clarity. I said. I said please, can you clarify, is a great opening. And she goes, yeah, that's good. And she read some more and then she said, anyway, sorry to be inconvenient. I said, no, you're not sorry. Say thank you for your clarification in advance. And she went like, wow, mum, that sounds good. I'm like, yes, stop saying sorry just for merely asking a question that just doesn't exist own it.
Speaker 2:And that's the thing, isn't it? It's like we have to own it and own ourselves and own our needs. And I think that we work. You know, I see this coming all the way up. Especially in perimenopause, it's becoming even more and more important that we, you know, tune in to that point inside us where we go okay, how am I feeling about this, what am I believing and what do I really need, um, to move that dial forward? Or to, you know, to sort of step into my power, and that's it, you know, and it's constantly checking in with that.
Speaker 2:And then, when we're losing, it's like, okay, what just happened? Where did I go? What story am I telling myself? Because in those little stories, there's a little part of us, there's that old part of us that's still a little bit stuck, maybe. And this is when we get to sort of, you know, open it up and go right, is that something I need to do with right now, or can I do it later? Or when am I going to do that work, because it's not going anywhere.
Speaker 2:So, until we do the inner healing, you know, and like that's why I said before, like things come up for me and it's not, it doesn't have the same intensity, but there's a fragment of something. It's really small, it's like a tiny little piece of something, like a piece of glass that's still stuck in my system and I just need to go in and, you know, move that thing out and almost treat it like a bit of a wound and give it a bit of love and healing and you know, and honor it in a way, and then let it go and let the body do its piece to let it heal. It sounds really simple, doesn't it, when I say it like that, and in some ways it is, but I think it's the commitment to ourselves that is the bit that we need, because if we're not committed to ourselves, then it becomes hard and I also think it's just that, um, it is.
Speaker 1:It is a life stage, because I remember everyone saying, you know, oh, life begins at 40. And I was like halfway through my 40s I'm like, really, when's it going to get going? And now I'm towards my latter end. I'm like, ah, now I get it. Um, and I think it's that that desire to serve is not from a good girl. You know, you've got to be a good girl and look after everyone else's needs. You've got to, you know, make sure you don't take up too much space, et cetera. And now it's like, no, I want to serve, but I want to serve from my place. And if something comes up, I'm going to stare it right in the face and say is this mine? Do I still need it? On this next, you know, half century that I'm going to go into, and so I think there's something that shifts in your 40s and apparently, when you get to your 50s, it's completely freaking, liberating, and I cannot wait.
Speaker 2:I'm hearing the same thing as well, and I'm really not far away from that. I've got one more year. Well, next year I'll be 50, but you know, the thing that's coming up for me is that I have become comfortable in saying I really don't like that, or that doesn't't work for me, or it can get stronger than that.
Speaker 1:Actually, yeah, like a big.
Speaker 2:F you, you know what I mean, and so that's something that I always really, really struggled with all my life. It was like, even though that's what I was feeling on the inside, like oh my God, you know? No, absolutely no. I just didn't know how, because I was more concerned about how other people were feeling and being kind and nice to them and not upsetting someone, and that's a major thing for me. But I've definitely, as I'm looking back on my journey, um, as a leader, I'm now able to be like no, that's not it, and it's taken a long time, but I'm so.
Speaker 2:I just want to celebrate it actually, because it's such a major thing for me to be able to be like I mean, there's nice way, you can say it in nice ways, um, but ultimately it's the same thing. You know the way we say.
Speaker 1:It can be tweaked that's actually a really important point. Um, just by saying no or that doesn't work for me. That doesn't make you a bad girl or a bitch. There's no good or bad. Remember. This is just you standing in your power and just asking for what you need or stating what you don't.
Speaker 2:It's about boundaries absolutely, and it's about that truth, isn't it? And I think that we always think, you know, it's one way or the other way, but it could just be that in. I mean, for me, when I go into, I go, is this like a fundamental no, or is this a no for right now? And, like I said to you before, if I don't, if I'm not in a yes, then I'm generally in a no, and it might change tomorrow. I might be like well, today I've got a yes because I've done a bit of work behind the scenes and I've managed to get clear and realize that it was my saboteur.
Speaker 2:That was actually, you know, leading me down a dark path and I'm back in myself again and I'm able to, you know, really go, kind of go. Actually it was in no use today, but I'm here wholeheartedly now and I'm in a yeah. So how do we, how do we move forward with that and and and being able to sort of hold space for that and work with people who have got that, who are willing to be flexible? You know, I mean, sometimes the world won't wait for you and things move forward without you, but then that was never right in the first place.
Speaker 1:Anyway, yeah, it's okay, let it go yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:So this almost feels like we're doing like life lessons here.
Speaker 1:Well, I was thinking as you were talking. Like you know, these are amazing tips for women in their their latter years or their midlife years. But knowing what we know now about bringing children into the world, particularly girls, I'm wondering what some of those tips are in hindsight from our little bit older and wiser selves. Thinking about us as kids, but also our own daughters, is just ditch the word good girl, but instead say good behaviour. Or rather than saying, oh, you look so pretty, just say wow, that outfit looks really good on you. Or they do something brilliant. And just say wow, you're so clever, you're so smart, you're so brave, and really build up their character. And I think that's the one thing, that that wasn't a thing when my kids were small, but it's definitely much more of a thing now and I'm like I love this thing celebrate the behaviors, the person, the qualities that they are, not just their appearance, 100% and get into details with them, you know, give them specifics and explain things I can.
Speaker 2:The word I use a lot with Catalina is I'm proud, I'm very proud of you, and she's really like what are you proud about? It's great because she asks me coaching questions all the time and I'm like well, I'm like great, and I'm proud of you for this, this and this. I'm proud of you for saying when you feel scared, she says that a lot. She's like I'm scared, I'm scared, and then it's like right, that's okay, what do you need? And we go through it and she'll do it with teachers. She'll do it in the swimming classes, you know, and then she'll jump in. But she just needs to name it um, and I'm good if she jumps in or doesn't jump in.
Speaker 2:To be honest, I'm like I'm just so proud of you for naming that, because that's not. You know, us as adults struggle to do that. So the fact that she's she's doing it now, I'm like wow, that's like blowing my mind and I can't say that I've taught her that um. Maybe I have somewhere along the lines, but I think it's really her own um. So it's that. It's like the level of detail and um, when I was in London last week, I got her this bag and it's a place where you can go to an Oxford circus and it says build your own bear.
Speaker 2:And we love build a bear yeah, and then you put a little voice note in and I just, you know, my message was you know, um, it was all about her qualities. I didn't mention the word good once, um, but all every single one of those qualities that I mentioned. I was like that's her, that's her, that's totally her. And I think when we connect into somebody's spirit, um, and we really speak from that place, they know that you're talking to them, whether they are a six-year-old child or a six-year-old woman. And I think, you know, it's a training point where we get to sort of like, look at someone and go, you know, I, I see your like vibrancy, or I see, like if it was you, but, like you know, I see your smile, I see your sunshine, I see your vibrancy and I love this about you because of how I feel when I'm with you, because of how your energy comes through, and I always feel like I've been uplifted when I spend time with you. We get into it, we do you know what it's?
Speaker 1:so, more than saying you are enough, you know, actually this is saying you're more than enough, you're freaking, amazing and how wonderful. And coming from a child who just heard don't, don't, don't. It's absolutely saying go be. And I think that is the best gift that you can give to any human, and especially a child. Um, yeah, I'm, I've loved our conversation. Um, as you know, it is one of my favorite conversations because, um, I don't think we can ever stop having these conversations, uh, especially when it comes to raising the next generation and breaking all of those generational curses and conditioning. And so I I encourage you to do the work, uh, for breaking free from any outdated conditioning that you've had. That means that you can step into the full brilliance of who you are.
Speaker 1:It isn't necessarily about being a rebel for the sake of it. It's not like throwing out you know everything in your home and just starting again. Sometimes it's really subtle changes. It's about reclaiming your truth and your voice and your right to just live life on your terms, without worrying about the judgment of other people, and try banishing the word good from your vocabulary and bad if necessary. And you know, be grumpy, be smiley, don't apologize. All in all, it's just about being you, and with that I'm going to say be you always With love. So thanks for listening, and we can't wait to welcome you next time.
Speaker 2:Until then, use your voice journal, speak or sing out loud. However you do it. We hope you join us in saying it's a star.