Say it Sister...

The Radical Power of Women's Truth-Telling: The Sword of Truth

• Lucy Barkas & Karen Heras Kelly • Season 2 • Episode 1

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Truth-telling is radical, liberating, and often silenced, especially for women who navigate a world that has historically taught them to swallow their words and shrink their truths. We dive into why speaking your truth is both revolutionary and healing, even when it means shattering comfortable illusions.

• Karen shares her 10-year journey of confronting the limiting belief that she was "unlovable"
• Lucy reflects on being told she was "too much" and learning to suppress her voice on taboo topics
• The shame women carry around sexual assault and the liberation that comes from breaking silence
• How truth creates intimacy in relationships by allowing us to be fully seen
• The generational healing that happens when we speak honestly about women's experiences
• Breaking taboos around menstruation, sexual assault, and perimenopause
• The difference between feedback given from ego versus feedback given with kindness
• Our bodies always know the truth, even when our minds create protective lies

Find us on Instagram at Say it, sister podcasters and at wise women lead, and let's keep the conversation going, because your voice matters here.


Speaker 1:

Welcome to another episode of the Save Sister Podcast brought to you by Wise Women. Lead founders Caroline Rizkelli and Lucy.

Speaker 2:

Barkis, this is your space for real, unfiltered conversations about womanhood, the messy, the magical and everything in between we're called upon to name the taboos, stigmas, stereotypes and lies that keep us stuck, so that we can rise and reign like queens. We open up spaces and deepen relationships that bring us closer to love and a better world for all. So get comfy, grab your favourite drink and let's say it, sister, hey sisters, we want to talk about the truth today.

Speaker 1:

The truth is something that sets us free, but it also shatters the illusions. This episode we dive into why truth-telling is radical, liberating and often silenced, especially for women. From taboo topics like rape, menopause and menstruation to internal battles with worth, not to mention facing our inner critic, this episode invites you to wield the sword of truth and shield of love for transformative healing. I've actually dedicated my life, from the age of 25, to truth telling, and my mission has been to tell the truth to myself first and foremost. It's been a huge journey and it continues to be. I've learned that there are areas where we protect ourselves from the truth because we believe the pain will be so great and that we'll never recover, but our body always knows the truth. When we are ready, the truth will rise, or we get given lessons that wake us up, and then we have to choose to dive deeper or ignore. I'll say more about this later. Hi, Lucy, what's your view on the truth?

Speaker 2:

hi, yeah, um. So truth is like a medicine, um, sometimes like a really bitter pill that we need to swallow. And yet for centuries women have been taught to swallow their words, shrink their truths, and today we speak it freely, with love and courage and with clarity. But I have to be truthful. Now I don't know how else to be in the world, because I think I've spent so many years not being true to myself, um, hiding and shrinking, and I cannot be bothered with it anymore. I, you know I get one shot at this life and I've got to be true to myself.

Speaker 2:

And in speaking truth, um, I have to just share that I'm I'm dealing with quite a lot at the moment. You know, we've had some devastating news in the family about a sexual assault. That, yeah, it's devastating and my whole body is holding a lot, and so, as we have this conversation, conversation I just wanted to share that because, yeah, I'm coming to you in my vulnerable state and some points you might hear my voice quiver, um, but that is the journey, that's, that's the point of truth. You say it even if your voice shakes. So, yeah, that's where I am, um, right now in terms of my truth.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's a big one, Vulnerable. It feels like a vulnerable place, doesn't it? When we address the truth and then to speak, it is the next step, really, as something becomes more real. So I want to say thank you for coming to talk today and let's see where it takes us, because there are so many layers to the truth. And let's see where it takes us, because there are so many layers to the truth, and it opens up this idea for me around the work that I started doing, which was really about truth-telling with myself and working with my own inner critic and just working out what was truth and what was, you know, a protective lie to keep me stuck, you know, in the box and in the mold, and the idea of, I think, which most of us have to deal with on an ongoing basis, of if I speak that truth, what are the consequences, what will it mean for me, what will it mean for the people I care about, what will it mean for the people around me and how will they respond to me? And, first and foremost, before we get to that, we have to work out what the truth really is. And and I did a lot of work which was about being this sort of warrior of my own spirit and not allowing, you know, the ego, the mind, to tell me something that actually wasn't true, to trust my own body and to trust my own wisdom and to you know the idea of the sword of truth which just cuts through the lies. You know it's of the sword of truth which just cuts through the lies. You know it's like the knife going through some butter. You know it melts it all away and then if you bring in the shield of love, so you've always got the shield of love around you and you take that with you wherever you go and love is so powerful that it will sort of bounce away the negative in a way. But we have to believe that first and foremost and you know we've all got busy minds and you know working with this idea of limiting beliefs as well. You know the things that get formed in us when we're children based on how other people respond to us.

Speaker 1:

And you know, for me I really believed when I listened to my ego, my inner critic, I really believed that I was unlovable for a huge part of my life. And when I realized that that was a limiting belief like to say it out loud is even a huge thing. I believe that I'm unlovable, like it was just so huge for me and the impact of that was so huge for me because deep down in my heart I knew it wasn't true. But all the stories that have been built around that and how I needed to behave and how I needed to be and what I needed to say and what I needed to do and making sure that everyone else was okay, because then they would, then I wouldn't be cast out, you know, and I wouldn't be alone because I was unlovable. And why would somebody love me anyway? You know, it just became like a life's work and I don't believe that anymore.

Speaker 1:

Right, but sometimes there's, like these little it's like glass, little tiny fragments of glass come to the surface and I'm like, and it's so, it's so tiny compared to what it used to be. It's a small little thing. I know it's lies, I know it's lies, but I have to just take a bit of a time, you know, and a bit of a create a bit of space and go oh, wow, that one's popped up. But it's all so small and I can, I can move that through again and it's kind of this work of like what do I believe about myself and my worth and my value and who I am and my um true right as a human being to know that I am loved and to be loved? It's just been huge for me. So I think that was my starting point and it was probably 10 years of work at least. What's coming up for you.

Speaker 2:

So I think, well, some of the stuff that I've been learning about myself when I'm holding that mirror of truth up is that I think I have always been told that I'm too much and I'm too loud, I'm too opinionated.

Speaker 2:

I get hyper focused on certain topics and then get really riled up about them and now learning later on that I actually have ADHD. It makes total sense. But there were lots of topics that were also quite taboo and I was told you know, don't talk about sex, don't talk about politics, don't talk about what goes on in the family. You know all of those. You know, again, religion. They were like those, those topics we just don't talk about. So it wasn't even about telling lies, it was about secrets. So to me that's not telling the truth, it's not being truthful and it's not being honest. And every time I went to raise one of these thoughts or opinions you know to use my voice and to debate or just bounce ideas off I was told you know, we don't talk about that or that's too much, or you can't say that, lucy. And so, bit by bit, I learned to bury those, that truth-telling within myself. And, and I remember, even when I was at uni freshers week. There were all these different clubs and I was really drawn to one of them because it was quite a, I suppose, a lefty one, I think it was like some socialist thing, and I was doing social sciences, so I thought this would really help me.

Speaker 2:

And I was told, oh no, we don't associate with that. Oh, your name will be on record that you're some kind of socialist, and and it was almost like, well, that's part of me and my beliefs, and why aren't I allowed to believe in these things? So a lot of my truth, um, it was suppressed and the thoughts were always there, but then it would come with a bit of shame. Am I wrong for thinking this? Am I? Am I wrong for believing in these things? And I better not talk about them?

Speaker 2:

Um, so I guess I, I did shrink and I did hide, and then, as I started looking at it, um, I then started thinking about some of the, the lies that I've then told myself, and it was, you know, like you say about those little shards of glass, that maybe I am all wrong and maybe I don't fit in, or maybe I am too loud and abrasive, and you know, the irony now is we have a podcast. I can say whatever I want. You know, because I'm learning that actually that was all just lies, and so the lies that I then internalized and started telling myself about who I was I now see they weren't my truths, they were somebody else's truths. And yes, and that's why it's dangerous.

Speaker 1:

I have to say say it's just that, because that's exactly what's been coming up for me over here. It's like when, when other people have that response to us, say it's just that, because that's exactly what's been coming up for me over here. It's like when, when other people have that response to us, it's because they're not comfortable with that. Yet we are and we're wanting to express it, and if we give them the power, then we diminish ourselves and so we become silent, you know, and that is so dangerous for us because it's like okay, so now I will speak the things that I know, people want me to speak, the safe conversations, and we become so diminished on the inside that we don't really know who we are anymore. And I lived such a long period of my life there where I was like I didn't think I was political, I didn't think I had any strong opinions, I was just like I wasn't beige, because I was very colorful and bright and bold, you know. But when it came to the proper conversations, the conversations that I have now, you would there's no way you would have seen me like running for the hills because I didn't know that I could have those conversations and I didn't really know what I thought, um, but put me in other spaces. I could talk away forever and my throat's getting tight and it's like, and I surrounded myself with like-minded people who also didn't want to have the discussion. So we talked about lipstick and we talked about shoes and we talked about handbags and we talked about, you know, going to exclusive parties, and so that became our life and we sort of fueled that. But actually inside me there was this very deep, lost woman who didn't have a voice, who just didn't even like no concept of it, and that's not and I'm not just saying that for effect. So then for me, as I've kind of matured and got older this other side of me there was always a depth to me. I could listen to other people's stories forever and add you know something? But in terms of where do I want to put my energy? What do I want to talk about? What's my agenda? It was really quite behind and that's changed and I want to celebrate that.

Speaker 1:

And if I hadn't gone after the truth for myself, maybe I would never have found it. And I suppose for me, like, the bad situations of my life are the things that when I've been rock bottom, and I suppose for me, like the bad situations of my life, are the things that when I've been rock bottom and I've hit that rock bottom place where I've really discovered quite quickly who's with me, who's not with me, who can I trust, who are my people, um, but the big thing for me was really owning that truth and having truthful conversations and, um be doing it from a measured place. But I had to sort of step into the circle with myself and say, yeah, you know you have been raped, you have been sexually assaulted many times. These things have happened to you and now you're going to go and have conversations about them and you're going to be truthful.

Speaker 1:

And it was the hardest thing in the world and I think maybe that a conversation with my mother took might have taken me two years to have that conversation or even longer, and lots of coaching. And it was, I was. I'm in tears, nearly here already. It was so hard to tell the truth to my own mother because I didn't want to burden her and I didn't want her to feel the shame that I was feeling and feel disappointed and all those things. And I internalized it and I knew that I couldn't heal to the point where I needed to be, without telling her.

Speaker 1:

There was something I had to do around the people closest to me, like my own family and parents, and then it took longer to tell my dad and it was just this massive journey. I didn't run in to the centre and go. This has happened to me because I didn't know how to do that number one and I'd not been taught how to do that. I'd been taught to internalize. That was my coping strategy for all of my life until I couldn't do that anymore because it was making me feel ill.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I hear that and as I was reflecting on this topic, I realized that some of the lies that I have told or the secrets that I have kept, topic I realized that some of the lies that I have told or the secrets that I have kept, it is usually been from a place of well, it's two places. One is to protect other people, and so I don't want them to hear the truth or to know the truth, because I know that from that moment when they hear the truth, their life is going to be changed forever in some small or huge way. So so, yeah, it's an act of love or, um, yeah, trying to protect other people from your whole messy truth. Um, and I think on the other side of it is that there's, just because of society, the way we we are, there is a lot of judgment. So when we come out and say I made a mistake, or this thing, terrible thing, happened to me, or this is part of my shadow, you know that you're going to get judgment and people are going to perceive you differently, and I think that's another part of it, that, um, we don't want people to see those darker edges of ourself or our pain, because we know that they will treat us differently, and that's that's something that I know I didn't say until that.

Speaker 2:

There was a defining moment, and it was around that me too period, when I saw other women come out and say this happened to me, and I think I was one of the first within my world circle that started talking about my experiences and I realised there was a lot of people still in denial. They weren't ready to go there and talk about their stuff, but by me telling my truth, it absolutely changed my life, because all of my shame just went as soon as I spoke my words. And then I realised that people actually they didn't judge me. Well, they might have done, but not publicly, but I suddenly didn't sprout two heads or have to run away to the, to my bedroom and hide for years. Actually I was safe and I was fine and I was accepted. So I think that's something that, although although really scary when doing it, and especially with those who are the closest ones to you, the truth will change your life?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely Absolutely. And this, our truths, need to be told. You know, there is a reason why we're here. I really truly believe that our life experiences and our journeys and our challenges are the things that shift and change us, but they also give us the wisdom and the experience that can then help others that are on the journey.

Speaker 1:

You know, if we, we don't even admit it to ourselves number one to the South has to be true Like we have to go there and say what was that? That was misconduct, that was sexual assault, that was rape, that was this is perimenopause, this is, you know, shame around, whatever it might be. And we have to have that absolute truth and say to ourselves and you know what, this is who I am, because I know who I am. So this is the truth of the situation and this is the truth about who I am, because I know who I am. So this is the truth of the situation and this is the truth about who I am. And from that we start to build and then it kind of spreads out wider than that. You know, and I suppose really we're talking here about our personal truth and how we live our truth into the world and how we almost, like, hand back the shame that was never ours to hold in the first place, because that was a big piece of my work, was like I was carrying all the shame that was never ours to hold in the first place, because that was a big piece of my work, was like I was carrying all the shame and there was so much of it and it was so, you know, pushed down and kind of like coiled around in a way, and it took me such a long time, like years and years and years and years and years. But I was like I am doing this work and I am not holding back because I owe it to myself. And then I owe it to my daughter, because if I can't be with shame, especially around sex and sexuality and femininity and bodies and all of that, if I can't be with that, then how am I going to guide her as she goes on her own journey? Um, how am I going to do that? And the conversations are already in the room, by the way, and she's nearly seven, so I have to be able to do that for myself and for her, because otherwise, probably what's happened for women, you know, all the way into the past.

Speaker 1:

It got swept under the rug, it didn't get discussed, and as a young woman growing up, I was so unprepared for the world I had no idea, and I think my mum would have been the same, and her mum. And so you've got generations of women with no concept of what's out there, what's going to happen to them. They've maybe never seen a penis before. Um, you know, they don't know. What, you know, honor is because it's never been discussed, and I'm talking about it from the feminine side. There's work for the men to do on this too, but it's got to be held in a way. But if we are in shame, then we can't do that. We can't do that. So we need a therapist or we need a coach or we need, you know, someone who's specialized to hold space for that. So that's really where it takes me.

Speaker 2:

And I have to add on to that the shame attached to it all is it is generational. Loving the conversation, Make sure you follow us on your favourite podcaster and if something resonates, share it on your socials or with a friend who really needs to hear it.

Speaker 1:

We'd love to hear your stories too. Find us on Instagram at Say it, sister podcasters and at wise women lead, and let's keep the conversation going, because your voice matters here I I don't think I ever spoke to my um mum about my period.

Speaker 2:

Um, and yeah, it was when I actually needed some products because I had my first period. It was the most excruciating thing. And she, she just brushed it off and like, oh, I'll go and get some stuff, but we never spoke about it. And me and my girls were completely open about all of that, cause I'm like it's just a bodily function, it's just part of being a woman. So we talk about our periods and you know the flow and you know what products are, any embarrassing things that have happened. We just talk about it.

Speaker 2:

And when my mum is around and she hears this, even now, she gets really uncomfortable. But I'm like, nope, there's no shame in this. And then, um, there's no topic off the table, even though as a mother, I don't want to hear about the stuff that my daughters are doing. Um, but it's really important because I, if I flinch with any kind of embarrassment or shame, um, then I'm passing it on to them and I've got to say when I think Evie said she was about 11 when she saw her first dick pic and if we don't have these conversations, we will never know, because she would have kept that secret from me and then felt dirty or scared and things like that. So we have to break these silences because otherwise we are complicit in that silence, we are complicit in passing on the shame and the secrets. And actually this is just a womanhood experience.

Speaker 2:

Pretty much as soon as you start talking about these things, every woman has got a story to tell. So let's just talk about them. Um, obviously, and you know, don't go into the office and say, right, we're going to talk about dick pics or we're going to talk about periods. Of course you've got to have in the right context. But the minute you start sharing your silence and not being ashamed or embarrassed or having the the irk with you, just open up in conversations. Every woman will relate in some way, and then you don't even have to fix them. You just need to hold space and just listen, just like we do with each other. And it is the greatest gift to be able to share your secrets, tell your truth and just be seen. It's beautiful.

Speaker 1:

I also want to say that we love our mothers and they did great jobs with us and look at us.

Speaker 1:

So they did, and you know, when I talk about this, it really comes from this place of deep compassion in a way oh yeah, like because it was hard for us, but we have stepped into the change and embraced it and done a lot of personal work and spent a lot of money on all the different things that we've done, and we still continue to do that, and you know, we teach the work as well, and so we've gone into the cave and we've got the elixir and we've done the you know, the dark, that work to then share back out with the world. But you know, our mothers didn't. I mean, they'll have had their own version of it, but they didn't have all of that, all that support available to them that we have today, and my heart goes out to her and to your mother too. So I want to say that, because it's really easy to get into, I should have been more prepared and I, you know, but I don't feel like that because they did the best they could with what they had oh, no, absolutely.

Speaker 2:

And and I think it is that compassion piece, um, because I look at my mum's generation and she was great. She was born in the post-war period but the messages coming into her world were almost like the step stepford wives about how to be a good girl, and it was really drummed into them from music, from TV, from films that they used to see. You know, she was brought up almost on Mary Poppins how to be a perfect woman, and and I just feel, yeah, real, real compassion for her and the fact that our mothers raised us to be the women that we are today. I just thank them because, you know, we're unlocking a lot of this stuff and then we're passing on to the next generation to unlock it, and so it started with them and with their mothers before them. So, yeah, it's always compassion, um, there's no blame. No, yeah, it's just a little bit of sadness for them as well and for the little girl that I had who wasn't prepared, um, but you know these are some of the hard truths that we've had to face and so you know there's I've had issues with my mum in the past.

Speaker 2:

I think every mother and daughter will, and sometimes you have to express yourself and tell that hard truth, to be able to get the relationship to the next level so they meet you as who you are today. Um, and yeah, that, that to me is a gift. It's so blooming painful. Can you speak to that? Um, I think.

Speaker 1:

I think the most recent thing for me really was I was telling my mum something and she, she said to me oh my god, let me speak, you speak. I can never get a word in edgewise. And it really surprised me because I was like, oh, she doesn't feel like she's got a voice. It just floored me a little bit really. So I was like okay. So she started to talk about something and I could see like the impact on her and it kind of showed me something about her life, I think around that voice of silence and the inner silence that we go through and has helped me to just take a step back sometimes.

Speaker 1:

Um, because I'm very good at communicating and I can communicate now I am, I can communicate easily about real things and you know, and and sometimes keep it light as well not always, but sometimes. So now I've got this skill. That I think is a skill, but not everyone has it. And there's a point, I think, inside of me that's like oh, so sometimes when she's triggered, like she can get triggered with me she, I know she's gone somewhere, that's, that's tough for her.

Speaker 1:

Um, I'm very emotional today. I just want to sit here and be, I'm just there's, just whatever's going on. But yeah, it's like generational healing and this idea of you know, as we were the children and we're loved by their children, but at the same time we are adult women now and we're in a very different place and that awareness of the work that I've done, and then I can look at her trigger points and think, oh, she's, and then how can I kind of come back around and how can I heal something for both of us? You know, because it's very easy to go to respond from a place of trigger back, very easy to go into that. But I know you don't do that either. I know you take the time to do the work and then, you know, come back together and be like, well, maybe I need to be a bit more of the adult today.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, in this moment, and sometimes teenage self comes out when I'm around my mum and I can notice it in myself now and then I have to check myself and just say, no, we're two adult women sharing space now, and I also have heard my mum say well, you just let me speak, or I can't get a word in, and I'm like, oh OK, yes, you do have a voice, and so that that resonated with me a lot and I'm sure I'll have the same with my children at some point.

Speaker 1:

And again it's listening, and again it's listening. The thing we need to remember too, for all of us I think every single human being is that the truth gets distorted over time and we do have a choice, when something happens, to sort of name it and step into the fire in a way, the fire of truth, or just ignore it, stuff it away, try and hide it, and I think over time it gets even more distorted. I think there's a window of time when you can do some work to get into the truth. Maybe you can go back and say, oh, actually I thought it was that, but it was this. But it's a bit harder because we've built protection around it and so there's just something there.

Speaker 1:

It's almost like the menopause conversation. If you, my mum had a difficult menopause, so we can talk about that, but a lot because she had a hysterectomy. So for her, she lost her wombs. That was such a major thing that she can. We have great conversations and it's really helped me. But I know a lot of women will say you know, no, no, I didn't experience it, nothing happened, I was my mom had a couple of hot flushes and apparently that's all she had.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and it's, it's, you know, and obviously we're talking about perimenopause here as well, because we know that's such a long period in the build-up. So I'm laughing, but it's like I hear that a lot from women that I work with like my mum was fine and I'm like, yeah, but I'm not dismissing anyone's experience here at all, because each person has their own experience. But there's something that happens over time that diminishes, diminishes, diminishes and it kind of gets put into this very small box and sort of locked away and didn't really happen yeah you know, um, but the body knows.

Speaker 1:

Like I always say, the body knows it happened and the body has memory. But you've got to be willing to open up that box and say, okay, let's let this thing out. And sometimes it takes something else to happen for us to go oh, it was actually rooted to this.

Speaker 2:

I didn't realize that that was such a me and I'm always telling my girls about my perimenopause because I want them to be prepared, um, because I haven't had a single hot flush. No, but my eyesight's gone. I don't particularly like driving um at night. Um, my memory goes, we can't find our words. The number of times I'm walking around trying to find an object and then forgetting what object I'm trying to find. There's so many of these symptoms that if I didn't know it was perimenopause, I think I'd be going mad.

Speaker 1:

Well, it's a dementia link, isn't it? And there is a link to dementia later on in life, you know, with the hormones that we lose and everything, and how it affects our brain. So you know what we're experiencing. Just feel like we're going into a dementia, but it's not, you know. And if we don't handle it, we don't know where we're going to. No one knows what the future holds, but we have to be very, very mindful of what's going on with our hearts and our bones and our brains during this life phase. It's as simple as that.

Speaker 1:

So yeah it's an example of something that gets diminished over time, because you're not there anymore.

Speaker 2:

So with each like generation, they break down taboos and societal expectations and obviously, you know, when we look back right the way back to the suffragettes, and then we've got those who got us into schools and further education, got us the contraceptive pill, all of these different landmark moments.

Speaker 2:

And I look at our generation and we are almost like the taboo busters and we are talking about all of these topics so that they aren't taboo anymore. And, and I think that's the greatest gift and you know, talk about Gen X, women or um, you know like we're, we're badass, but I want to like almost just recognize that we are badass because we're talking about things for the first time that nobody ever spoke about generation and the next generation. And I can't wait to see what the next generation do and you know what mantle we pass on to them. But I think there's something there that we we do need to acknowledge that these say it sister conversations, these truth-speaking conversations it is new, it has not been done before, um, and just to honor that because we're talking about it, yeah, we've done the work and it's been hard, but actually we're, we're breaking the the chain and it's important to recognize that absolutely 100.

Speaker 1:

I think we'll see where we go with it. We're, we're on a we're on a bit of a wheel, aren't we? That's spinning around at the moment. But I feel that there's something else for me around the truth, and that is around speaking the truth to somebody else, which is another major topic. Um, if you think about that, like I know, when someone has come to me with something they wanted to say, that has been an observation or something that they go, that's not really you, you know, and we have to do our own inner work here to go. Is that the truth or is that just somebody's? Are they projecting onto me, you know? But there is a place to play for that. I think that's really important when there's people around you who know you, who care about you, who are observing something.

Speaker 1:

Sometimes it can be a really hard truth. Like you're drinking too much. You know what I mean. Like you're drinking too much. I've noticed that you're spiraling in certain ways. That's a very hard truth, um, but other times it can be a bit more subtle. And you know, when I did my leadership training, they did a whole retreat around intimacy, and the idea of the truth is what creates intimacy. So when you see somebody all of them and you also see the shadow and you can express that that person seems fully seen. It can also be very hard if you're not ready for those truths, um, but I believe that if you can come at it from a place of genuine care and love, you can say pretty much anything to people. And that is the big thing for me about the truth, when I think you know, there's been times in my life when um example, I'll just make it real you know, I did some work with another coach in my leadership training and she said to me one day not any of these exact words, but this, I'm going to just paraphrase it when you go into that ditzy place, it really pisses me off because it's not who you are.

Speaker 1:

But she said it and she was a she's a very strong character and it was the absolute truth. As she saw it and I just I looked her and I thought I know what you're talking about and I I didn't name it as I agree, or anything I was like oh wow, because it was so strong when it came out of her and I took it and I was like she's right, I went away and I was like you know what? She's 100% right. I can go into this like ditzy place and disassociate and I'm not really connected and that's not who I really am.

Speaker 1:

I'm very grounded in my essence, but when I'm triggered and I go into sort of a panic place, I can get very ungrounded very quick. So this is why I've done all this work, you know, and it was such a gift to me. And now, every time I feel it coming on, I'm like I've got to get almost like get my backbone back in place, like feel my backbone, get my feet on the ground, be like no, we're not going there, unless it's a survival tactic and it gets me out of somewhere. That's a whole different story, because you can use that and it can be survival and it can, you know, take you out of a scenario. But this is this, wasn't that? So that for me, is very powerful and it's about connecting into the heart of that person and the care and then delivering what needs to be said yeah, some of the uh, the best feedback I've ever received has been, um, with kindness.

Speaker 2:

Some of the worst feedback I've ever had has been with ego, and it's it's being able to discern is this theirs or is this mine? Um, and that kind stuff. It does mean it's easier to take, but it then does become a gift, and then you can go and explore it and then choose. You know what. What am I going to do with this feedback? And I think so many people get feedback, whether it is from the head place or the heart place, um, and they react, they get triggered, they argue, they try and um, prove somebody wrong. And actually that's not, not the, that's not where the gift lives, um, and so, yeah, feedback. I do a lot of this work with um, with clients, about how to give feedback and have those courageous conversations, and I always, um ask them to think like, what is the impact or what is the outcome you're hoping to achieve by saying that thing, um, and then how can you make sure that it is delivered with kindness? So it's not about you, it's about what can the other person get from this?

Speaker 1:

um, but yeah, when you tell that kind of truth, it yep, it'll land in one way or another, but it's so much more empowering to be able to do it from a place of oh yeah, I know, thank you for that and yes, you're right, and I know that about myself and it's going to be a watch out for me because when these things they're so old, sometimes they get. You know we have to. If we've got the blind spot, we're not blind anymore and then we can, we can move forward.

Speaker 2:

So it doesn't feel particularly nice, but it's valid and it's important and it's up to us to discern that yeah, I always go into the curious place, um, straight away and like is that true or how did I show up or what was that leading up to that that made them think or see that within me?

Speaker 2:

So my first thing is just to question, not in a defensive way, just like, oh, that's interesting and, generally speaking, yeah, it, there's some truth in it, whether I want to take it or not. But I am going to pause and begin to close this conversation because it has been so enlightening. I've learned so much about myself just in this conversation and I welcome the, the listeners, to also just maybe start peeling back a few layers and looking at some of your own truths and the stories that you're either telling yourself, which may be make believe, or things that you've buried down that maybe you're ready now to look at. So, as always, thank you for listening and, um, we're always here if you need us. That's it for this episode of Say it, sister. If it moved you, made you think or made you even feel, seen, hit, follow, share it with a sister and leave us a review and remember your voice has power and your essence has wisdom.

Speaker 1:

So speak your truth and live a true and empowered life. Until next time, say it, sister.