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Say it Sister...
Lucy and Karen, two 40-somethings, are always chatting about life, and all that it has to throw at them, and now want to share their raw, honest conversations with you. Their journey of finding their own voices, self-discovery and healing is something many of us can relate to. We all possess a unique power within us, but life’s trials often knock us off course. They have the tools, the courage to speak up and simply say it as it is, so you might feel seen, and understood and gain practical tools and techniques for self-discovery and personal growth during the changes we experience.
Say it Sister...
Emotional Labour, Midlife, And The Courage To Say No
We explore the hidden costs of emotional labour, why midlife turns up the pressure, and how to share the load with clarity and care. Stories, science, and simple tools help you set boundaries, self-soothe, and redesign roles at home.
• defining emotional labour and the invisible job description
• midlife hormones shifting patience, clarity and resentment
• conditioning that trains girls to caretaking roles
• signs of emotional burnout and detachment
• practical boundary-setting and the power of no
• rituals for energy hygiene and self-soothing
• redesigning roles with partners and co-parents
• noticing everyday magic and micro-moments of support
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Welcome to another episode of the Say It Sister Podcast. Brought to you by Wise Women Lead Founders Karen Harris Kelly and Lucy Barkas.
SPEAKER_01:This is your space for real unfiltered conversations about womanhood, the messy, the magical, and everything in between.
SPEAKER_00:We're here to talk about existing, thriving, and empowering ourselves and each other by connecting to our experiences and truths. And saying them out loud. So that we can feel and heal. We're called upon to name the taboos, stigmas, stereotypes, and lies that keep us stuck so we can rise and reign like queens.
SPEAKER_01:Because when women share, we hold space, inspire action, and create change. We open up spaces and deepen relationships that bring us closer to love and a better world for all. So get comfy, grab your favourite drink, and let's say it sister.
SPEAKER_00:Welcome back to Say It Sister, the space where we get honest, real and raw. Beautiful and messy, experience of womanhood, all coming together in one brilliant conversation, especially as we're both in midlife. I'm Karen.
SPEAKER_01:Hey and it's Lucy here, and today we're diving into the topic of emotional labour. A topic so many of us talk about with our friends. We may not call it that, but we're definitely talking about it. And it's coming from a place of exhaustion, maybe a little bit of overwhelm. Um, and we just need a space just to let it all out. And this emotional labour of looking after everybody else's needs, uh, holding space for everybody else and what they're going through, um, yet not like looking after ourselves. And I think that's something that, especially in midlife, we really feel it. Um, probably before midlife, we just carry on, we just keep going and going and going, even though it's really hard, but we do, and then something around midlife shifts and changes for us, and we realise we just can't hold it on anymore. We've got to release it, we've got to do some change.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I would say if you're listening and thinking, if if the thought process, which is my process most of the time, is I'm exhausted, or why am I always the one holding everyone else's emotions together? This is for you. Emotional labour is the invisible job description we never agreed to, but somehow we became the CEO of it all anyway. From soothing our partners to meditating with kids and between kids to carrying the emotional climate of an entire household. Women pick it up without even realizing it, and we need to become more awake and more aware.
SPEAKER_01:Oh yes, say it, sister, because what's fascinating and heartbreaking is that so much of this is both biological and societal. Yes, we are more attuned as women to our the people that we love, you know, the emotional and relational transactions that are happening and everything. Um, and yes, oestrogen and that oxytocin does play a role, but there's also a lot of conditioning that we should be the carers, we should be the feelers and the fixers, and I'm the only daughter in the family. Um, and yes, it's kind of like this expectation that I'm the one that's going to check in on my mum and dad, not my brother. I'm the one that's there to visit or to help out with Christmas or whatever else is going on.
SPEAKER_00:Um, what about you? I think the midlife changes everything, and when our hormones shift and our tolerance levels drop, and we're really super tired, more tired than ever before. The emotional load that was manageable, yet sometimes you know, we've all had to have those moments in life when it wasn't manageable and it was nothing to do with hormones, it was just too much going on. Now it feels like completely overwhelming. And whilst we know we need boundaries, whilst we know we need better communication, it's still really, really difficult. And we need to be brave and bold and draw lines in the sand. You know, for me, I always go, is this mine to take or is this somebody else's? And just working with that, this is mine, and this is actually yours, you know, and being very, very clear about that. Otherwise, the overwhelm just gets bigger and bigger and bigger.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, do you know what? I was listening to um another podcast the other day, um, Diary of the CEO, and Stephen Bartlett was there saying, Yeah, it's my partner who brings up the topics when things are difficult or when things are challenging or something's not right. And he was saying, like, he always goes, Oh, do we have to talk about this? Um, and then he's so relieved when they do talk about it because it improves something in their relationship. But what I was hearing is, it's still your partner who has to do all the emotional labour to try and solve things when things aren't right. Um, so yeah, that was it just popped up on my screen just uh a day or two ago, and I thought, yeah, let's get into this conversation. So, Karen, you and I, both midlife, we're in that squeeze time when we've both got our parents who are aging, we both have kids with their own emotional needs, uh, heartbreaks, they're learning to navigate their worlds, and we've got to hold that container for them. Um, and we've obviously got the nearest and dearest in our lives who have got their own stuff going on. But what are you noticing now about the emotional labour that you're facing? Because, and I asked this for you first because you have got a very young person who you you really are their primary caretaker in that sense. Whereas my children still need me, but they're learning to navigate some of that emotional regulation and problem solving for themselves. So, what's what's going on in your world right now?
SPEAKER_00:I think it feels heavier than ever before because I've always been I didn't realise I was calm, but actually I would definitely say from the ages of around 37, something like that, I went off on this journey and I was like yoga and meditation and you know, very much focusing on the inward and the inward journey, and it became my life, and I used to call it my sacred path, you know, I had all these big words, and so it was on my sacred path, and you know, it was very like calm and centered all the time, you know. And then I met Rich, my husband, and sort of came off balance on that one for a while. We found our way, you know, and I think when you when you find love and you fall in love, any kind of form of like sacred path or balance gets tipped upside down. So there's there's that experience of that, and then when we had Catalina, it was alright for a while, but actually as she's got older, and you know, now I just go, Oh my god, I've got to take care of myself, I've got to take care of her emotions, and I'm also trying to let my husband know that he needs to get involved, and it's like it feels so much more heavy. And and I was laughing with a friend last night, and I said, God, I used to be this really calm person, and now I'm just not. There's so much more going on in my body, and I have to regulate myself and I know what to do, but actually, there are moments when I'm just like, blow out the candle, blow out the candle, you know, as a strategy to sort of like let it all release because I'm so overwhelmed, and so that's what I do. I blow out candles, and Catalina does it too, and she'll look at me and I'm like, and she's like, you know, it's this kind of like new signal that we've got with each other, and she's doing it, and actually, it does make us laugh, and that has helped a lot, although we've been only started doing it for the last few days. And I said, I want to talk because I was with two men last night, and I said, Hey, I want to talk about our topic today, which is emotional labour, and I want you to when we've done it, Rich, I want you to listen to it. And my friend James said, But he does it too, he carries the emotional load too. I've seen you both, and and I said, No, no, no, I need to stop there because when it comes to Catalina's emotions, I have all the conversations, she tells me everything, and I have to filter through it, work out what's important, work out what's sort of normal for a child of her age, work out how I can support her, and when to sort of maybe sort of move her into something else. So I've got all of this stuff happening, and and she tells me everything. So every day I'm in there working through things, trying to, you know, redirect, um, help her, give her strategies, da da da da. And then I'm also taking care of myself. And then I say to Rich sometimes, I think you should go have therapy on that, and she'll he'll say, No, you're my therapist. And I've told her at the phone, I'm like, No, I'm not your therapist, I am not your therapist, I am your wife and your partner, but I am not your therapist, and I'm not here to sort of take it all. So they both then laughed, stayed quiet, and went, No, you're right. So it was really a reaffirming moment, you know, of just going, No, I'm carrying it, and I've been carrying it for a long time. So that's really where I'm at, and I'm all very aware of it, and I'm also pulling him in all the time because I'm like, I can't hold as much as I hold. So it comes from like a place of going, please help me, actually. Please of the heart is saying, Please help me with this. I it's too heavy for me now.
SPEAKER_01:Um I noticed when my children were um all in those early years at uh primary school, when the youngest child or the only child hit around three to four years old, there were a load of relationships that suddenly then started ending, people breaking up. And I was fascinated by this because actually it were my youngest was also three when our relationship broke down, and I just kept seeing this pattern. So I I wanted to understand a little bit like why is this happening? And uh, and you might hear the male voices going, you know, oh well, it's because we've done our bit and now you've cast us aside, or whatever. But there is some like biological reasons for that, um, you know, we are animals, but actually, I think it is this fundamental emotional labour piece where when you have got these young children, um, and you are the caretaker, and and it isn't just about them having their own emotional experience and you talking through it, it's actually just try even when things are a bit tense in the household, you know, you can walk in and you can just notice that somebody's in a bad mood. And we we understand as emotional and relational creatures that if we allow that thing to breed into the household, it just gets bigger and bigger. So we go in and try and smooth or listen and fix all the time, just carrying all of this and holding space for everyone, and then eventually we go to bed exhausted. Um, because again, very few of us give ourselves permission to go to that yoga class or to go for a walk or that soak in the bath because there's just so much going on, and I think it gets to that point where by three, your child is starting to sleep through the night and to need you a little bit less, they're not attached to you constantly, and I think you start feeling like ah, I'm getting me back, um, and it starts raising a lot of questions. And for a lot of us, we are older mums as well, so that hormonal imbalance comes in, and I can definitely speak to that for myself. Um, it was almost like I started getting a bit resentful. It's like, why do I have to do everything? Why am I the only one thinking about how to make a magical Christmas or to what they truly want for their birthday gift, or to make sure that they are wearing the right outfit for World Book Day? It was me that was putting all in this, but it wasn't because I wanted to be the best mum, it was because I didn't want them to have the heartbreak of wearing the wrong outfit or forgetting that they um haven't done their spellings test and all of those things because to me that's emotional labour. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:And there is something about the emotional landscape, you know. So for me, what I see a lot with Kathleen and her friends, there's someone's always been crying every day, and maybe multiple girls crying every day. So she'll say, such body was crying today because of this, or I was crying today, or I cry every single day. And I'm like, okay, so what was happening in that situation? Um, you know, just trying to sort of help her work through it a little bit because I'm like, Yeah, they are, they're all crying every day. What the hell's going on? You know what I mean? But this is just like, is this just human nature? Kids that are trying to navigate situations where they all want to do something, they all want to have a say, they all want to be, you know, if they're playing a game, they all want to be roomy from K-pop demon hunters, and they they're just not willing to compromise as someone's always crying, you know, and it's like there's less competition at home, isn't there? So they might be the only child or they might be one of two. Now they've got ten kids to to navigate, yeah. And these are the conversations that I have, and I and I have them on loop, but she's got so much better at being able to say, Oh, that was then, this is a new day today. But it's still all of that, and then the anger, you know, that comes out because the barriers have been well, she doesn't know about barriers or or boundaries, but it's like she goes to anger, so she doesn't need to go to sadness, and so you know, that awareness that I have around that. So I sometimes I know too much. I think this is the problem. Where I'm like, I know too much of what's going on in her day, she's telling me everything. I also know too much about emotions, and I'm sitting there going, She's not my client, she's not my client, you know, and and and having to sort of be like, be age appropriate, be age appropriate. So I've also got all of that running, which is really tiring because it's like there's just too much going on in my brain.
SPEAKER_01:And even when you send them off to school and you start doing your work or whatever yours made, it's still there, you're still carrying it. Because until you come home and you know that they're okay, you can't not hold that space because you can't let your guard down. Um, it is it really is exhausting. So and it starts early, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_00:When does it start? When did it start for you? Those early mess messages or the conditioning that you were your job was to be an emotional manager in relationships. When did that start?
SPEAKER_01:Um, I can't remember it being that way as a child, as a small child, but it probably was. Um, and it was probably more to do with the stories that was being told or the images that I was seeing around me. Um, and the reason why I say I can't remember it being early was because I was the first granddaughter that came after about seven or eight boys. So I was always hanging around with the boys, and uh, and they just well, apart from always making sure I was in goal or whatever, I was I was just treated like one of them. Um, but I do remember in my teenage years particularly, um mum would make sure that I was the one that was being quiet, or I was the one that would go with her to go and visit Nan, or I would be the one, I'd be like her wing woman almost, and she wouldn't expect my brother to do it, but she'd always expect me to. And then um I was the one that was taught to share and to be kind, and so I think it was always there, but it it it was subtle, it was like this drip, drip, drip until I then got into my um young adulthood, and I was married at 22, but I'd been with him since I was 18, and so already there were things about well, how am I supporting him, even though I was the one with the career, um and I was actually earning more when I came out of university, but it was still I remember even like you know, this is about the the home labor, but it was even things like um when I said I needed a dishwasher because I didn't have time to you know do all of that, that his mother-in-law gave me a right frown. Um, and it was just like this expectation. But when he was around 20, 21, um he was going through a bit of a rough time, and that was the point when I realised uh I'm I need to support him and I need to make sure he's happy because if he's not happy, then our relationship isn't happy because I didn't have the skills back then, and so I that's where I kind of like re realised ah, so I'm the emotional support for everybody in my life. What about you? Have you got a a moment or a memory?
SPEAKER_00:I think it started really young for me, and I knew my job was to be good and to be a good girl. That was my rel that was my role in the family, and because my mum and dad both worked full-time and they let me know that they worked full-time, and the reasons why they were working full-time was because it was for me, because they wanted me to have you know nice things. But actually, as a young child, I mean these are important messages, don't get me wrong, because it also taught me to be not shy of work. So I I learned like a really solid foundation of like work ethics from them, and I'm grateful for that because I love I am a worker, I just really am. So they taught me that, but on the flip side of that, there was this oh, they're really busy, and therefore I can't, you know, become a I can't be a typical seven-year-old. Like I look at Catalina now and her and how she is, and then I I look at the seven-year-old me and I think oh my god, I was so grown up in contract.
SPEAKER_01:And I think there's also that trade that I'm hearing, it's like I'm doing this for you, I'm working hard for you. So you be almost like be grateful, be good in a contract. And it doesn't mean to be unconditional love, but unfortunately that's how it sounds to our little ears.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly, and it and you know, yeah, it was like a role that I took on. So for me, this has always been something, and I've always been really good at seeing everyone else's point of view. So actually, we talk about balance a lot, me and you, in our conversations, but you know, I was always able to sort of like look at it from these different angles, and I think it's because I learned how to sort of put my own needs further backwards. So my needs were sort of right back there, and then the family dynamics and their needs were further out there. Um, and I just was quite detached from my own needs, and it took me a long time to learn to listen to those needs because I'd overridden them all my life, really. I mean, our key memories are sort of seven, we're there, so uh this is all I remember. I don't remember before that, so it explains a lot to me when I look at myself and I go, Oh my god, I basically just abdicated myself. Um, and there was obviously some quite big costs for that, but at the same time, I learned a lot of great things for that because it's what makes me an empath. You know, I can see people coming towards me and they know exactly what they're feeling. I start feeling it too, and my sensitivities of being able to like read things on quite a high level, know what's needed and be able to create it, that's brilliant for me and my job. Um, but actually, as a human being, as a woman in the world, I've had to learn to put me into the equation, and that's why the inner work became this big massive thing for me, and the sacred path I was talking about earlier became this big thing for me because I'd never done it before. I didn't know I didn't know who I was on the inside. So when I connected to that, I it was like this is the most important thing in my life because I'm in here. And actually, what I've learned to do is be like, actually, I'm always in here. Whether it's like feeling white and pure, like a sacred path, or it's absolute chaos, I'm still in here. Still Karen, yeah, you know, still me, still here, always was here, just didn't know you know how to connect. So this has been this has been the big journey for me around so we're yeah, it it goes deep, it goes deep. And I'm glad that I can put myself in to this equation.
SPEAKER_01:One of our um fellow classroom members from our CTI training um invited me to her house when I I was probably about 35, 36, and um and she was going through um perimenopause at that time, and she shared with me her some wisdom that she'd picked up that her whole relationship with her partner who she'd been with for 27 years had started really shifting, and she'd she was getting excuse me, she was getting really resentful. Um, and sometimes him just walking in a room, she'd like start like almost like growling. Um, and she really wanted to understand what the hell is going on with me? Why am I feeling this? I love this man, but I really hate him. Yeah, um, and she basically discovered that oxytocin, which is obviously what we need, uh, sorry, oestrogen. Oxytocin, I'll come on to in a minute, but oestrogen, um, we absolutely need that to be able to obviously have babies, but we also need it to build um communities, build that village around us to nurture the relationships, to create that safety so that our men protectors, you know, the daddies don't go off, you know. So, in those early years, absolutely essential. And so it makes sense that as our estrogen starts to drop in this midlife period, we actually do start thinking, well, what about my needs? Who's looking out for me? Who's asking me, Am I okay? Not just like, are you all right? Actually, you know, how was your day? I really want to hear about it. Um, and I think that's what starts happening in this midlife period. It is definitely hormonal, but also we then start getting a lot more clarity over ourselves and questioning, well, why is it that I'm feeling like this? And actually, why is it me that's the only one to sort out the Christmas gifts or worry about the children and what they're doing? And I think resentment can come into that. What are you noticing around that?
SPEAKER_00:I think we've got a good a good level of balance, not maybe on the emotional labour stuff, but which is you know, bringing that more in because I'm asking for it. But he does a lot, so I'm quite lucky, you know, like for Christmas, like for example, he'll take over like all the Christmas food shopping, the Christmas Day stuff, um, food all through that period. He'll make sure we're all fed, watered, um, he'll do bits in the house, I'll do all the organisation, all the present stuff, um social calendars. Um, you know, so we're both extremely busy, but I don't feel I'm not worrying about buying a turkey and you know, doing any of that. Like, and sometimes he'll say to me, What do you want to eat today? And I'll just look at them as if I've got the brain space to work out food. Like, I just don't so so to the women that are carrying all of that, I do not know how you're doing it. And I have I don't even I actually it makes me want to cry because if I if I had to think do that stuff on top of it, I would not be functioning. I'm pretty sure of it, and hence why he's the right part for me. It's not just about what he you know what he does in the kitchen.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, when you throw in ungrateful teenagers into that, um, it's even worse because um, and I think this is where a lot of midlife women who have now got um teenagers or young adults, um that there is a natural drop in estrogen so you can get over that whole empty desk thing. And so there's a lot of transitions that are going around in this life, but again, it's like I'm dealing with two, three, four other adults in my house and nobody sees me. And I think some of it is like we've trained them. So you, in a way, have set these expectations with rich. Um, but again, these expectations change over time as the other people in your household grow and as you grow, and it's about keep coming back to that because otherwise, yeah, if you keep adopting the role of the person who holds it all together for everybody, who does all the planning and emotional caretaking, and then suddenly you stop. Excuse me, my voice is really croaky today. Um, yeah, if you withdraw that and you've been giving, give, and they've been receiving, receiving, receiving, and then suddenly you stop, it's gonna be it's gonna punch hard. So I think, yes, you and Rich are in a really good position because you're both from the offset, you've designed this relationship together. But also just know that as your child grows, as your hormones grow, as he hits that midlife stage and questions what things are about, you're gonna have to keep redesigning this, otherwise, you will just throw the the plates on the floor and walk out just needing some goddamn peace.
SPEAKER_00:And maybe he'll be the one throwing the plates on the floor. Do you know what I mean? Because it is like what happened to the person, you know, on you know, on all sides, what happened to the person that I met who I fell in love with, who was much more fun, light, and breezy, you know, what happened to her? But and I think we laugh we laugh about these things now because we're so different to the people who we were when we met. But we we do have a good sense of humour and we've always been able to laugh at you know ourselves and each other and the relationship and the craziness. So that actually think I think goes a long, long way. But you know, I'm also very, very different, and my whole thing, I've had so many conversations with him sometimes, and I'm like, I just wonder why you're still here sometimes, you know. Like, why are you still here? Um, especially when I was in a deep dark phase, you know, after I'd had Catalina, I was like, Are you good like at some point you're gonna go, aren't you? You know, I just couldn't believe that he would stay, and he'd be like, No, of course not, I love you, I'm not going anywhere. And that was really wonderful for me because I just was like, He's how how is he even in this relationship? It it it was deeply emotional for me because it was like, Well, he does really love me, like he's not leaving, and I think uh we all have maybe those like little levers sometimes of going if I do that that might come to an end. But I was sort of like just being myself at that moment in time, and and when then when someone stays and they love you anyway, I think that's just the most profound and I think that's probably what keeps our relationship going because we stay we s we just stay. We stay and we have the conversations. And when I first met him, he had no emotional intelligence whatsoever um and zero. Yeah, he was highly sensitive and had lots of you know feelings and it there was this whole disconnect. And so over the time as I was a coach, you know, and doing my coaching work, he started to s I started to see this shift in him that he became much more emotionally in tune, and then could actually talk to me about things. And if I was really angry, then he would he could come and have that conversation with me. But when I first met him, that was not on the card, so it's taken us a long time to get to the point where we can sort of say, you know, and I was a bit like that too, I didn't like confrontation, so we ha we've had to work through it all, and I think you throw everything in in the mix, sometimes it can feel really, really heated and heady, but uh you just gotta stay through stay and work through it.
SPEAKER_01:So here's a question for you. We're talking about obviously emotional labour. Are you willing to release some of the emotional labour to rich?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, a hundred percent. And we we've we've done various things over the years. I was we were laughing last night because we have this phase where he used to dress up as he used to dress up as a house elf with uh and he had this hat, this like red and green hat with bells on it, and I'd hear the the hat come out of the cupboard so ridiculous. Not for me, I haven't got a weird sort of fetish about elves, but for Catalina, and so what would happen because she would she would like go to bed and then then her brain would wake up and then she'd start talking about everything, and then it was really hard to get her out of that, you know, that flight, fight, flight freeze part of her brain, and it was just before bed, which is the worst possible time. So what he would do is I think we called him Elfie. Elfie would sit on the stairs and wait for her to come and would have this voice and everything, and then she would come and then they would sit on the stairs together, and she would tell him about her day, clear stuff out a little bit, and then by the time she got up to her bed when I would be waiting for her, she was much more relaxed and able to sort of like she'd had some conversations and she could move through it. So that's what we did, and he did that for about it. Actually, it went on way before beyond Christmas.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I absolutely love what you're telling me, but I am gonna challenge you a little bit because the the oxytocin hormone which we get as mothers, um, means that we would approach things with a much more nurturing and um yeah, that more emotional attunement and soothing, whereas fathers actually have more vasopressin, which encourages protective and playful behaviour and promotes exploration. So again, he was he was there in an emotional moment looking after her needs, but he was doing in a more of a playful, um, almost yeah, exploration kind of mode. And that's why I'm just wondering, you know, you might have it absolutely perfect in your relationship, the way that the roles work. But I'm just trying to break down some examples of where women are naturally attuned to be that emotional labour, but how we can then maybe step back and ask the men in our lives or our partners, our wives, whoever they are, to help share that load. And I'm I'm testing whether this is a bit of nature, whether it's a bit of nurture. What are your thoughts?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah, no, I definitely think we assume that naturally, and it did take me some time to even say Tim, can you do some days of pickups and drop-offs? Because I was doing all of it, and that that's not emotional labour, but it is labour, it's a silent labour. So I think there is a point when we have to be able to look at ourselves and go, Okay, it's not really it's not working for me anymore. Like there's just a point lying in the sand, it's not working. So therefore, what do I what what do I need to say out loud to then create something that's different, you know, and have the conversations, and then from the conversations, the idea being that together we go, okay, well I can do X, Y, and Z, and you do X, Y, and Z. Now, this is a practical example I'm giving about this the pickup and the drop off, you know what I mean? Um I assumed that. I didn't need to assume it. Now we share it. I still do a little bit more than he does. So it still balanced more towards me. And on the emotional side of it Yeah, I mean I I I I definitely can give more to him, but it's just and then this is where I hear myself stuttering a little bit on the inside. It is not, and this is where where the problem lies, it is not his natural place. So he needs to grow some muscles there and learn that skill set. Um he's actually good with her in a different way because he's much more practical and matter of fact, and he he and that's the role of mummies and daddies. She does need that sometimes, so it does work in a very, very weird way. I think it just gets I get overwhelmed when there's too much happening all at the same time, and I haven't had the space to sort of take care of myself. So he can help me with that.
SPEAKER_01:I think and that might be all you need to do is like you need to go play, you need to go, you know, climb trees together just so I can have some time to to nurture myself, not then say when you're at the house, I'm gonna clean, I'm gonna do these tasks. Actually, take that time to rebuild yourself, and I've had to learn this really, really clearly because I am a single mum, and I have been since the children have been three and six. So every single one of their emotional needs, I am the person that I've had to, you know, I've had to look after me to be able to look after them. Now there were certain points, so I hate to say this, the teenage years are rough. Um, and there were certain points where I would have to phone their dad and say, um, I can't deal with this, um, this is too much. And he would literally drive 15 miles to come and do it. It only happened two or three times, but those testing teenage years where I'm like, I cannot cope with this. But other than that, it's been really positive because I am naturally much more of a I'm a nurturer, but I do it in a much more practical way, and actually having my children has allowed me to soften and open a lot more, and it has been a beautiful experience, but I can quickly switch back into more of the playful um dad style role. I am not the dad, I know that, but I will go build campfires with them and we'll go and do our scouting or we'll go camping together. So I've been I've had to adopt both the roles, but that has really helped me tap into my femininity, I think, which probably wasn't really there before. So I'm seeing this as a real benefit. But the difference was is nobody was asking me, Am I okay? Now, Evie, now she's almost 18, she always asks me, she's phenomenal. But for a long time, nobody was checking in on me to see whether I was okay, and that was really, really hard.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's just feels like a lonely. Again, it's like we talk about the lower. It was lonely, yeah. On this pathway, and you're going along the path, and you've got your two cubs with you, you know, and there's there's no one from sort of the sides or from behind, or you know, even a bit further up saying, No, it's safe this way, let's go. And yeah, I think you're an amazing, remarkable woman and mother. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01:And there's a lot of single mums out there who are going through it, and there will be some single dads, but it's mainly, let's face it, the single mums. And yeah, so I guess this is an acknowledgement to them. We we we know you're doing it all.
SPEAKER_00:We know and I I want to say, what do you want to say to those? Like, what words of wisdom do you have or hope?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, just um, you do need that time away. So if the the kids go away to their parents, uh the other parents or the grandparents, make sure you're doing stuff that nurtures you. Um, and then if the kids are of that age where they go to bed fairly early, go and do the things that you know, read your book, light some candles, uh, have that soak in the bath that is going to be an hour, whatever the thing is, don't just numb yourself or just get doing tasks. Really look after yourself because it replenishes and where possible, get a female circle group because just being with other mums who are in the same position, they'll get you and they will ask you how you are, or they will offer to take your kids just so you could go Christmas shopping, you know, just those basic things. Um, you it it really does take a village, but I hear you, and do you know what? The relationship I've got with my girls now, because of what we went through, is just phenomenal, and they are phenomenal as a result of it. So that the blessings are there equally.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's interesting you should say that because I think what I am realising at this point in the year is that there are so many miracles happening all the time that and this is a side point, so I'm just gonna throw it in. Oh no, we love a bit of magic. I'm going off on a tangent here, but I really noticed it, and then maybe it's because of the time of year that it is and the magic that's in the air. But I feel like we can get so focused on what we want to happen and on the, you know, like this is the dream or the goal, this is what needs to happen, and we f fixate on that. And unless it's happening, unless it's coming together, it can feel like nothing else, it can feel like everything's going wrong. Now, sometimes we have t phases in our life where everything does go wrong. I've lived through that time too, but it but this isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the goal is not happening, it's not coming together, you're not getting the right. But around that, there are all these amazing things that happen in the magic and the miracles, but we're so hell-bent on that one goal that we can't see anything else and we can't let it in, and we're missing all of the other magic that's happening. And in missing it, we stay in this really rigid place of that's not working, that's not working. It's like, well, look at all this other stuff that is working, look at all the brilliant things, got all the beautiful people, look at what that person just did. And I'm gonna give an example for that because now we're on back. You're making me smile, yeah. And and my daughter, so basically, my daughter got sent an advent calendar in the post, um, a Barbie one, and and there was nothing it didn't say who it was from. And there's a woman that I used to work with who lives in Switzerland, and she's had a really hard time. Um, she lost her job and she lost her husband, and is just having the worst worst, worst time, and she's got no money, like they've nearly been like on the streets, and people are helping her and stuff. And she sent and I just thought there's only one person who could send it, and it's in its I'm not gonna say a name, but it's this woman. And her husband who's just died, used to always send the calendar to Catalina. It makes me want to cry. And I was like, it can only be her, but then I thought I know she's got no money, and how could she send this calendar? Because it's probably cost like 20 quid or whatever. Um so I contacted her and said, Did you send? And she said, I did send the calendar, I wanted to keep the tradition going, and I was just like beautiful. It's the most I mean and obviously we don't need we didn't need her to send the calendar, and I don't want anyone to ever put themselves out where they're so struggling so much that they you know that they put that money into something like that. But it the message that got received with it was so beautiful. And I said to Catalina, I said, Do you know how special this calendar is? Do you know how amazing this calendar is? It does it doesn't matter how little you have, sometimes you can always give to others, and it doesn't have to be a physical gift of money, it might be a kind word or a smile or a sentiment or something.
SPEAKER_01:But we can make such a difference to people's lives, and that has kind of been a bit of a tradition, and I just I sort of in its for me, it's people when people show up for other people, that's what for me is the magic, and whatever it looks like, um whether it is remembering um and sending a gift like that, or whether it's actually your hour of need, or you look knackered, or you've just you know, whatever the thing is, when people show up, that is that's the magic, and that's the bit that got me through all of my single mum years, and we had some magic last night because um I asked Evie to help me um unload the dishwasher, um, and she just did it, no, no qualms or anything. And she said, Can we listen to music when we do it? And actually, we then just sang our hearts out to Hamilton music and danced and for about 10 minutes until I needed the loo, because yes, I am a woman of a certain age and I had to call it. But I've just like this is magic. This is magic because we've we invest in each other and we've done that emotional. I have done the emotional labour, and she is proof of that because she has got all the skills, she just she just gets it, she's awesome. But I also want to just point to some of those before we wrap up, actually, but just point to some of those signals where maybe you're feeling emotionally drained, where you've because I've been there where you just think I have no more to give. Um, I can't do this anymore. And the things that it might look like is just some emotional detachment. You find yourself detaching. So when people are going through hard stuff, you almost like lose your empathy and compassion, but it's just because you are emotionally exhausted from holding it for everybody else. Um, it might be that sense of dread that you've got like this foreboding that oh god, something else was going to go wrong, and you're almost like preparing yourself for something dreadful, um, being easily irritated. Um, but for me, I think it was just that apathy. So even when things were really joyful, I just didn't have anything to give, so I couldn't feel the joy, let alone feel the misery. And and I think a lot of women in midlife are feeling this, and they're naturally starting to detach. So before we go, I just wanted to give a couple of ideas about how you can feed you know yourself emotionally, and then I'm gonna ask you, Karen, and then we'll sign off. So I would say just that self-care, um, that self-soothing. If you're not getting it off other people, you've got to give it to yourself, and that will look different for everybody, but it is really about being kind and loving to yourself, and then the final bit is for me was always to express myself, and whether that is talking to my girlfriends. Um, now my kids are older, sometimes it's me expressing it to them, sometimes it was writing in a journey, but I just had to be able to say the words that this is really hard. I am knackered, I'm exhausted with this, and just saying it out loud almost was a bit of self-soothing as well. What about you when you've had those moments of exhaustion? I can't do it anymore.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, I have them quite often, so I know this one really, really well. Um I think the most powerful word that we can use is the word no. And you might say no more after you might put more after that, but you know, like because we've done it for so long, and then we're like, I can't do that anymore. Like it something's got to change, and it's like no more, no more of that. It it's actually an awakening when we do, but uh there needs to be management around it to some extent because if we've not had boundaries and we've done things, and then all of a sudden we're like, no more, and it normally comes from such a place of force that the other people are like, Whoa, you know what, what's happening? And so therefore there's a build-up to that as well, you know, of just that constant checking in and being like, Where am I going with this? Like, what what is the no more like in in my on my list? I always say to people, like, you write your list, do some loads of release, tick the easy stuff off. If there's stuff on there that's just been on there for a long time, just don't do it, you know, just find a way to get rid of that thing because we're creative, we can we can come up with all sorts of things. If we can build the most amazing things in the world, we can get rid of things off our to-do list. Um, but there's a reason why we we keep it on, you know, some sort of like weird thing that we have with ourselves. It's almost like a punishment. So we've just got to stop doing that. So that's the thing.
SPEAKER_01:And and then I say no to giving out Christmas cards. I'm just so done with it, it just causes me stress. No Christmas cards this year.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. And you know, that's and that isn't what you want to do. So you you will put that time into something else that's more meaningful for you, and that's that's a brilliant thing. I think the thing that I was taught by Jane McCampbell Stewart, who's been on the podcast, is around being very clear about what's my energy, what's my emotions, and what are others, and then being very, very clear and going as a ritual and going, Okay, my energy's been depleted, so where have I given it out? Who have I given it to? And then you call your energy back in and you say, you know, I call all of my energy back from this person. If you know who they are, you might not know, it doesn't matter, but you you say, I retrieve all my energy right now, and I send it to the right place inside myself, and you just let it come back and you breathe it in until you feel like it's complete, and then the body will just regulate itself, and you can also send back other people's energy because we do pick things up and we it gets lodged inside, and so I release all energy that is not mine. I do that, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And I don't pull it back in, and I probably need to, but I definitely push out, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and so it's like I mean we do it all the time when we breathe. Well, every time we breathe, our body knows exactly how to sort of bring in air and release uh, you know, bring in the new, release the old. Otherwise we wouldn't be alive. So we're doing that naturally, but actually, this is with intention, and so we start to sort of like create this stronger, firmer boundary and around ourselves where we are in our complete whole self, and I think doing that as a ritual of practice is so powerful, I cannot even begin to say it. So for any woman out there that's like, I'm so tired, I don't know, I'm carrying too much. Pull your energy back, release other people's energy out of you.
SPEAKER_01:Um well, I feel better just for talking about this today. Um, it was a real tonic, and it's also a reminder that we must um release what isn't ours, and remember that we were never meant to carry this emotional world around with us, and certainly not the emotions of everyone else around you. I spent many years drumming into my own children that they are not responsible for the emotions of others, and I want to remind everybody else of that. It's it will take some unconditioning, but this is not yours to carry alone. Karen, will you sign off for us?
SPEAKER_00:Midlife isn't the breaking point, it's the awakening, and it's your body saying, No more, I'm matter too. And that awakening is sacred. It's the moment you start choosing yourself, setting clearer boundaries, and allowing the people in your life, especially the men, to develop their own emotional muscles. And remember, you are not doing this alone. That's why we created Say It Sister, because when women speak the truth together, the load gets lighter and the shame dissolves.
SPEAKER_01:Amazing. And I just want to remind everybody if you're loving this, please do share it with another sister. Um, like, leave comments, do what you can because the more you help us, the more amazing women we reach. So, um, and this is our before Christmas episode. So, happy Christmas, everybody! That's it for this episode of Say It Sister. If it moved you and made you think or made you feel seen, hit follow, share it with a sister, and leave us a review.
SPEAKER_00:And remember, your voice has power and your essence is wisdom. So speak your truth and live a true and empowered life. Until next time, say it sister.
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