Midlife Social Anxiety, Named And Navigated

We explore social anxiety in midlife with honesty and care, naming how hormones, sensory overload and identity shifts change how we show up. We offer scripts, boundaries and gentle tactics to regulate the nervous system while keeping real connection alive.

• midlife social anxiety as a normal transition, not a flaw
• how oestrogen, serotonin, GABA and cortisol shape mood and stress
• alcohol as a mask and redefining friendships around it
• practical event planning, exit strategies and recovery windows
• sensory triggers, breath work and co-regulation with trusted people
• choosing depth over noise and letting identity evolve

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Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome And Theme Setting
• 0:58 Naming Midlife Social Anxiety
• 2:07 Christmas Plans And Dread Vs Desire
• 5:21 First Signs Of Change In Social Spaces
• 6:46 Lockdown Relief And Craving Real Connection
• 8:33 Alcohol As A Mask And Identity Shifts
• 10:49 Weddings, Nervous Systems, And Overwhelm
• 13:34 Redefining Friendship Circles And Boundaries
• 16:06 Choosing Events With Intent And Exit Plans
• 18:36 Practical Support: Bring Your Tribe, Leave Early
• 21:36 Why It Happens: Oestrogen, Serotonin, Cortisol
• 23:21 Sensory Triggers, Safety, And Self Talk

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Welcome to another episode of the Say It Sister Podcast, brought to you by Wise Women Lead Founders Karen Harris Kelly and Lucy Barkas.

SPEAKER_01: 0:09

This is your space for real unfiltered conversations about womanhood, the messy, the magical, and everything in between.

SPEAKER_00: 0:17

We're here to talk about existing, thriving, and empowering ourselves and each other by connecting to our experiences and truths. And saying them out loud. So that we can feel and heal. We're called upon to name the taboos, stigmas, stereotypes, and lies that keep us stuck so we can rise and reign like queens.

SPEAKER_01: 0:41

Because when women share, we hold space, inspire action, and create change. We open up spaces and deepen relationships that bring us closer to love and a better world for all. So get comfy, grab your favourite drink, and let's say it sister.

SPEAKER_00: 0:56

Welcome back to Say It Sister. We're here today to talk about social anxiety in life and especially in midlife. Today we're diving into something that so many women experience but they really talk about openly, and that is the way that life stages, hormones, perimenopause can completely shift how we show up socially. The social anxiety, the detachment, the feeling of being alien in rooms that you used to glide through, that sense of watching the world buzz around you while you retreat into yourself, and that awareness that everyone else seems to have in the best possible time. And with Christmas fast approaching, there never has been a better time for this podcast. It isn't about becoming less, it's about understanding what's really going on in our minds, our bodies, our identities, and our hearts as we enter this different transition. And today Lucy and I are naming it all the exhaustion, the fear of small talk, the day after anxiety, the longing for more depth, and the journey of accepting that we're not who we once were. And maybe that's okay. Hi Lucy.

SPEAKER_01: 2:05

Hi Oh, do you know what? It's brought back so many um elements of what I'm facing right now because I've been put in charge of organising a Christmas gathering for an eclectic group of people that I um hang out with, and I uh the idea was let's all go on a drinking binge because quite a few of them are in their 30s. Um, and I said, Well, actually, I'd really like to do something maybe around a meal or an activity, and then for those that want to go out drinking and partying afterwards, it's there because secretly I don't want to have to go out and do all that hustle and bustle and be in loud noises, and yeah, it just the the thought of it is dread. Yet, me in my 30s, that'd have been like, woohoo, let's go for it. And there's that connection there with me being a mum of two, well, I have to say, young adult girls now, women, um, which makes me cringe a little bit. Um, but they also have the same feelings that I have on many occasions with social overwhelm and social anxiety, and it just made me realise that where my hormones were all over the place, there still are two, and so it's something that comes back frequently, it's just different in terms of how we might learn to manage it. And for me, now I the way I manage it now is completely different to how I would have handled it then. So, um, yeah, back then I probably would have been a bit of a carefree social butterfly, but now I just I want to go into my cocoon most of the time, especially with this wintering period. So, yeah, it's it's got like this ripple effect that can touch every part of our life at different stages, and especially from our careers, our friendships, which I've noticed have shifted, um, to even the closest relationships. So, yeah, we are going to be honest. I've already shared probably a lot of what's going on with me right now, but yeah, we're gonna be honest, we're gonna share, and we're gonna connect so that you can maybe hear some of what's going on for us in your own stories. Um, you know, if you're getting those invites and thinking, yeah, I'm excited, and then the day of it, you've got that dread, or you want to just yeah, yeah, we we we all know it, don't we? And then yeah, when you see the big tables and you're like, Oh, where do I sit? Oh, I don't want to sit next to that person because it's too loud, whatever it is. Um so yeah, and then there's that feeling of afterwards where you just need a few days to recover from what used to feel just so natural and easy. So, just a message here you are not broken, you are just evolving. But let's get into the topic. Over to you, Carrie.

SPEAKER_00: 4:43

When did you first notice a shift and how you felt in social spaces? And what did it look like for you?

SPEAKER_01: 4:50

Well, I can almost pinpoint it to an actual event, and it was a really special event. It wasn't even a huge room, but it was a room full of loose acquaintances, and it was after a business award, and I was a winner of one of the awards, so all the award winners were coming together just to you know share. And I walked into this very familiar space that I've been in many, many times, and there were two or three people I knew really, really well, and I just felt the dread walking in and just seeing all these faces. And I walked in and I just honed in on two or three people that I knew really well, and one of them was sat in the corner, and I went and sat next to her, and we hung out for at least three-quarters of an hour until I said, I think we should probably go and talk to other people, and it was like an effort to have to go and push myself, and that was like the first inklings of I don't want to be here, or I don't know how to be anymore, which was really strange. And I always joke about this, but a few weeks later, COVID lockdown happened, and I was so relieved because then I had the perfect excuse to hanker down and not see anyone. Now it was I still craved my human connection, but it wasn't that false connection, you know, just going out networking and partying. It was like I could connect with the people I really wanted to, and that was yeah, that was so different for me. And I did wonder, am I depressed? Is there something wrong with me?

SPEAKER_00: 6:16

Yeah, it's I am associating myself within this because I look back and I I look back at the younger me and I realise that I am an extroverted introvert, and I think I'm probably I'm definitely definitely both. I definitely need both. However, for me, you know, as a child I would read books, I would hang out with adults, I was just much more grown, I was grown up actually. I grew up quite quick anyway, and for me, like the interaction or like lots of people around me actually would trigger my anxiety. So this sort of goes back quite a long way. But then I discovered alcohol, and alcohol was a great mask and a great cover for me because I told myself I needed to be a social butterfly, and so it was my job to be out there, to be at the centre, to be having the best possible time, you know, and my ego, my unhealthy ego took over. And I drove myself and drove myself, and I was always the last person standing. I never wanted to go home when I was out with my friends, you know. It it was like a lot of pressure actually to have the best possible night, to have the best, you know, experiences, you know, and a lot of that was partying. And I I look back now and I just think yeah, there's a part of me in that, but there's also a part of me that got highly suppressed and squeezed, so it was like, you know, and then this sort of mid-life phase, actually from about 35, I started opening up more and go and doing yoga and meditation and um realizing that there was a deep peace inside me that I'd never felt before because I never allowed myself to. So, you know, there's there's something really important about I think acknowledging where you are and who you are, and knowing that um we need different things at different times. And you know, another example I've got was my wedding day, and when I got married to my husband, I had PTSD and I had Catalina was six and a half months old, so I was highly sensitised, um, is a kind way of saying it. And we had quite a big wedding because we delayed it for a year because I got pregnant, and we just continued with the same wedding, and it was not what I needed. My nervous system needed something smaller, more um intimate, and then we had this like wedding of and it wasn't massive, it was 60 people, but for me at that point I didn't even like being around like six people, so it was very, very, very, very difficult, and I didn't enjoy it. And I was um, you know, I look back, I'm glad I got married, and I love my husband, but I was like, I hated my wedding day.

SPEAKER_01: 8:50

And whereas I was the opposite because I was only 22 when I got married, and so I was in that prime bit of my life where um yes, I was partying hard, and I I I wasn't drunk drunk, but I was definitely on the side of you know, drunk more than tiddly. Um, I had an amazing day, I loved being the centre of attention and having all of that. Um, but yeah, the idea of that now would just be like, oh no, I can't be bothered with it all. So I totally get it. And to talk to alcohol and substances to bring out that side of you. Um I was that girl, and I think many of us were. We used a crutch to become more carefree, and I stopped drinking really. I'll have the odd, really nice glass of something. Um and yeah, occasionally I'll have more than one, but it is rare. And we've got a group of friends who I've not purposely distanced myself from, but I have retreated because their social life is around alcohol and going into town and etc. And so in my 30s and even in the post-COVID days, where I'm like, let me out of here, um, we parted hard, and then the next day or the day after, I would just have such anxiety, or and I I say to them now, um, I don't, I'm not accepting because or I'll drive because I don't want to drink in that way. And what they um say to me, Oh, but drunk Lucy is such fun, Lucy. And actually, six, seven years ago, I would have gone, oh, go on then. And now I'm like, yeah, but it was just a mask, it didn't feel real to me. And so I wanted to speak to that as well because diff peop people be on different journeys with this relationship 100%.

SPEAKER_00: 10:46

And I I was thinking about the same thing because I was such a party girl that I was just really known for it, and also my job, I was a PR, I was out partying with my job, you know, networking, seeing people, but it always was like, you know, it always involved alcohol because that was that was the nature of the beast, really. So I was really known with that. And when I went off on my like more spiritual, like I committed to it, I wasn't doing it in secret, you know, and I committed to it, but like it actually didn't go down well at all with my friendship circles, and I lost a lot of friends, um, because I was like, I can't keep doing this anymore, like it's just not like it's not in my heart, and yeah, I probably hung on for longer than I wanted to in a way, but I think we generally do, don't we? Yeah, we do, because we because we have those great times, and I have got the memories and you know, some great memories and all the rest of it. So I don't regret that, but I I I definitely was like, you know, there was a lot of Mickey taking and I found it quite funny as well. So I can always laugh at myself. So that that doesn't bother me too much, but it just felt like it was getting really negative for me, and so you know, it just didn't work anymore, and and it's just that awareness piece, I think, when we're going when we start to change and evolve, not everybody likes it. That's okay, doesn't mean we have to continue with the relationships. Sometimes we break and we don't see them again, sometimes we break and then we come back together again, and and it's like they're in a different place and we're in a different place, and it feels great. So, yeah, I wanted to talk to that as well because I've it it was definitely a massive struggle for me. Um, and I stru I'm a bit of a people pleaser, so if I see people and like, oh go on, go on, I'm more likely to sort of get weak in that moment and go, okay, okay, okay. But actually, that's not what I wanted, and I don't do that anymore. So there's definitely the celebration point at this point, and you know, nearly 50, where I go, actually, the cost of me doing that, I learned that the hard way. It was like, it cost me too much. I got it's too painful for me to sort of go along with what other people want. Now I have to listen to my own um wisdom and my own body and just say, Okay, actually, what I tend to do is I'll go, do I want to go to that? Am I what's my reason for wanting to go to something? And is it that reason big enough that will actually get me out of the house? Because I am a little bit reclusive these days, um, and I love it. I love that I can do that, and so when I go to an event, it doesn't mean that I want to necessarily be at the party or around loads of people because I actually don't, but I'm like, I'm going like I had a 50th this weekend and an 80th, and I was like, I'm going because I love these people and I want to show up for them. And in doing so, there's a part of me that's in um a bit of a battle, internal battle, because it's not where I want to be, but I want to be there for them and I can't miss it, and so I showed up, but I had a plan in place. I brought my mum and my daughter because I was like, if I've got them with me, I feel like I've got my tribe around me, my immediate tribe, and they will likely enjoy it to a certain place as well, and then when it's enough, we leave. And so I had that, and when I sat there with them at the beginning when it was really loud and there was lots of people, and I felt a little I felt out of myself. I said to my mum, I'm so glad you're here because I couldn't have done this on my own. And there's a real awareness for me now to walk into a room of a hundred people who I haven't seen for maybe 15 years or something. I actually can't do that alone anymore, and I need to have people with me. And it's like the truth, but it's quite liberating to be like, I now know this about myself, and I now support myself in that. And we left at half ten, and you know, it was enough. How long were you there?

SPEAKER_01: 14:19

Um, well, we got there about uh about quarter to eight, we left at half ten. Well, I was gonna say two o'clock is about my social retreat these days, and I'm like, um, oh, I've just got to go and check on the dogs now, or oh my parking's up, I better go. So I've always got a plan of an exit. Yeah. Um, and if I don't, if I'm really genuinely in the moment, then I'll stay. But I've always got an out, uh, because yeah, two hours and I I start waning.

SPEAKER_00: 14:44

Exactly. And it it was really nice to see my friend having the best time. Like that was there was like there were some wins in that, you know, of got of showing up and watching her, and you know, she was the social butterfly, and just seeing her dancing and just going, Oh, she's just having the best time. And I was so pleased I was there really for her, because I missed her 40th because I wasn't very well. So I had all of this like need to show up, need to do the right thing. But knowing that we can also leave, and you know, if I'd have said when I went, she was like, Thank you so much for coming, and it felt genuine, and I think that's important. But if it had been anyone else, I'm not sure I'd have been in the room. I don't think I would have been there, I'd have sort of said, Do you know what? It's not really for me anymore. So I think we're always sort of like looking at situations and thinking, Yeah, is this what is this one for me? That's how I go now. I'm like, is this one where I need to be at? If it is, I'll do it. But I I create this wider plan.

SPEAKER_01: 15:36

So it's probably a good point just to pause a minute and just to try and explain a little bit about why this is happening to us. Now, I don't think this is just a women thing either, because I hear my brother who's 50 now and his group of friends, and they equally really appreciate going on a walk, playing golf, going fishing, or just going to a quiet pub for a good chat. So I think that there's that it is something that happens with age, but I also think that for women in particular, the anxiety bit, it's not just about preference anymore, there is actually something that's going on, and so there's that I want to just talk to about the different hormones and how they relate, just so that the those system thinkers there are, oh, that's what's going on. So we all know estrogen drops, and oestrogen isn't there just to help us make babies, it's it's actually got a chemical reaction or a hormone reaction with lots of different parts of our being. Um, and one of them is to regulate some of the other brain chemicals like serotonin and GABA, which help to stabilize your mood and keep you calm. And without that balance, when your estrogen's dropping and then increasing all over the place, of course, your emotions are going to be swinging all over the place. So, like I said, sometimes you might get the invitation and be really excited, but when it actually comes to it, you're like, I really can't do this. Um, and then that's why sometimes you might feel super confident one day, and the next day you're just like, Oh, somebody's pulled the plug, I've just got no energy. And then the final bit is the relationship with cortisol, which we know is your stress hormone. Um, and oestrogen also helps regulate your stress levels. So, as estrogen falls, well, of course, cortisol levels can then spike. So, that genuine anxiety that you might be feeling, it is a true fight, flight, freeze response to something which normally, well, in your 30s or early 40s, you might have been able to better moderate without the need of substances. Do you want to speak to that a little bit, Karen?

SPEAKER_00: 17:40

I just feel that there's a lot going on in our brains and in our bodies, you know, regardless of which hormone it might be or which ones you know we'll we're struggling with or we don't have enough of, and then we produce more of something else. It's like there's just a lot happening, and it's happening in our brains, and it's happening in our bodies, and sleep deprivation, you know, for me it's the sensory thing that I really struggle with because loud noises make me jumpy. So if I go in, I mean noise is one of the things, it's a big, big thing for me, it's a big trigger as well. So when I had PTSD, I saw that and I was like, oh gosh, I you know, loud jerky noises set me off, and it sets my whole system off. So PTSD isn't perimenopause, but you know, there is similar there are similarities, it's just our nervous system, our sensory um experiences are different, and what we need is we don't need heightened, we actually need more calming spaces, we need um to be able to feel it's about safety for me. Like if I'm a bit herky jerky and my heart rate's you know pounding too much, and um it's not because I'm exercising, you know, it's because I'm just out and about doing something. My brain's also gonna be going quite fast, and I am in the fight, flight, and freeze, you know, and and I hate that feeling because it it's like, oh my gosh, I'm out here and I should be having fun and enjoying myself, and I'm in fight, flight, and freeze. And then, you know, when you've got people coming over, hi, how are you in hugging and all of that? Like then the sensory touch element triggers me again. So like I can be, you know, like there's a whole heap of things going on, and I think you know, we can then get into like what's wrong with me, um, where do I belong? You know, everyone else having a great time, I'm not. So then it gets into like a different level of like problems, like there's a problem with me, there's a problem with my body, and actually we're in a life phase, it's a natural life phase that no one's really talked about, and now we're having the conversations, and and you can guarantee that if you move towards women of the same age at the same party, you probably and you actually are open enough to have conversations, they're probably going to say very similar things to you. So there is this commonality, this shared experience of we're all kind of doing feeling the same things, continuing to do the same things, but if we can Come back into the awareness and we can support ourselves better. I think that that's where I go because I know it's all happening. Um, if I overthink it too much, it can make me even more fear. I have more fear in me at that point. So it's almost like, okay, let's just offset everything, let's just take some deep breaths, let's just come back in, get your plan together, have your script, have the conversations with the people that you need to before you go to an event and say, Oh my gosh, my symptoms this week are you know being off the hook. I'm I'm much more anxious. Um, so just letting you know that um you know I'm a bit high-wired at the moment, and I might not stay very long, but I'm coming because I adore you.

SPEAKER_01: 20:40

Well, on Friday, uh Evie and I went to see six at the theatre, and it was brilliant, really loved it, and thankfully it was only an hour and a half long, which was a nice surprise. But um, we arrived into the foyer, and it was all you know, cues at the bar and people around the the um gifts area, and it was obviously the anticipation, so it was really heightened. Um, and so we went to the toilet and we went and stood by the door, waiting for it to be opened, and then we went and found our seats, and we we were all quite excited, and then Evie was chattering away like she does, and she's like, Why aren't you talking, mum? And I hadn't realised I'd gone quiet. And I just said, I'm a little overwhelmed at the moment. I said, I just need, I haven't got the words, I just need to sit because there's a lot of people around. And she went, Okay, I get it, which was amazing. I mean, she was just fabulous, but I think that's the really important bit. It's like, um, if you the people around you just say, Are you okay? And you're like, Oh, actually, no, I just need a bit of quiet time. Now, something that I've realized about myself, I vape. I used to be a smoker, I'm now a vapor, and I realize that my vaping is a safety net because if it gets a bit overwhelming, I just go and step outside, I take a two a few breaths. I mean, there's hardly any nicotine in it, so it is almost like just taking some deep breaths.

SPEAKER_00: 22:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 22:01

Um, and then sometimes I'm only out there for a minute or two, just enough to collect myself and then go back in. And I spoke to a number of people about this recently who were almost actually, it was a group of five women, and we all just congregated and I mentioned it, and they're like, Oh my god, that's why I come out here as well. And so I think that's that's just something to be aware of as well. There might be some techniques that you're doing without awareness, whether it is going quiet, going spending time more in the toilet, going outside for a bit of fresh air. There are little things that you can do, but yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_00: 22:32

Well, it it's also the inward breath, you know, that's what you're doing. You're breathing in, you know what I mean, and then you're breathing out. I mean, that is the the ultimate form of recovery because if we our breath is not right, then everything's out of whack. So we know that on a very, very fundamental level. Um, I've had many conversations with smokers about the breath work and things because I do have these conversations. People don't tend to smoke quite as much these days, but I had a lot all my friends used to smoke, so we had we've talked about smoking a lot about what it did and why, and la la la. So um, yeah, I can associate with that. I feel like there is something going on about our identity that's shifting that is really, really important in this phase.

SPEAKER_01: 23:12

So, this is a perfect time to take a pause and we're gonna carry on the conversation in more depth, talking about who we're becoming or maybe who we're having to grieve. And actually, is it social anxiety or is it just boredom? So, until next episode, which you'll catch next week, um stay tuned and just yeah, notice and what can you do to regulate yourself in those moments. Say it sister, back next week. That's it for this episode of Say It Sister. If it moved you and made you think or made you feel seen, hit follow. Share it with a sister and leave us a review.

SPEAKER_00: 23:47

And remember, your voice has power and your essence is wisdom. So speak your truth and live a true and empowered life. Until next time, say it sister.