Social Anxiety Or Just Boredom

Inspired by a question Jameela Jamil asked, we question whether social anxiety is always anxiety or sometimes boredom, overwhelm, and changing needs. We share how midlife reshapes identity, why depth beats noise, and why boundaries and recovery rituals matter during busy seasons.

• boredom versus anxiety in social spaces
• craving deep one-to-one connection
• sensory overload and small talk fatigue
• slippers, comfort and self-acceptance
• grief for old selves and changing friendships
• after-event spirals and self-soothing habits
• holiday boundaries, enoughness and rest
• choosing smaller, richer gatherings

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Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome And Today’s Big Question
• 1:01 Boredom Versus Anxiety Spark
• 2:39 Craving Depth Over Small Talk
• 4:06 Comfort, Identity And Self-Acceptance
• 6:04 Overwhelm, Sensory Load, And Connection
• 9:10 Disconnection, Perimenopause, And “Meh”
• 12:16 Grief, Friendship Exits, And Renewal
• 14:56 The After-Party Spiral And Self-Soothing
• 18:40 Boundaries For A Calmer Christmas
• 22:42 Enoughness, Smaller-Richer Lives
• 24:24 Closing: A Spiritual Transition

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Welcome to another episode of the Say It Sister Podcast, brought to you by Wise Women Lead Founders Karen Harris Kelly and Lucy Barkas.

SPEAKER_01: 0:09

This is your space for real unfiltered conversations about womanhood, the messy, the magical, and everything in between.

SPEAKER_00: 0:17

We're here to talk about existing, thriving, and empowering ourselves and each other by connecting to our experiences and truths. And saying them out loud. So that we can feel and heal. We're called upon to name the taboos, stigmas, stereotypes, and lies that keep us stuck so we can rise and reign like queens.

SPEAKER_01: 0:41

Because when women share, we hold space, inspire action, and create change. We open up spaces and deepen relationships that bring us closer to love and a better world for all. So get comfy, grab your favourite drink, and let's say it's sister.

SPEAKER_00: 0:57

Welcome back. We are happy to be continuing our conversation together. We're talking about social anxiety. Is it boredom? Is it the fact that we're being you know forced to change? How much of it is hormonal? You know, and we just want to have a really good old conversation today, as we always do, and really sort of unravel what is going on, you know, why do we feel that this high-level anxiety when we have to go out socially and we have to interact with people? Or is it literally that we're being forced to change, that we're being forced to let go of a part of ourselves, an old persona that we actually don't even want to be around anymore, and actually what we're wanting is something totally different for this life phase. Lucy, what's coming up for you?

SPEAKER_01: 1:40

Well, I want to um just play a little clip of something that sparked our interest, and um you may or may not know that I'm a huge fan of Jamila Jamil, and she's got a way of just putting things that just explains a lot, and it made me start thinking, am I in social anxiety all the time, or sometimes is it that I'm just I'm just disconnected from that moment? So here we go.

SPEAKER_02: 2:08

And I'm blaming myself for being old in other people's thinking, and I'm going, what's wrong with you? Why are you having more fun? And then I was taught to label that as social anxiety, to pathologizing, and then I started having one-on-one time with amazing friends and feeling so energized by that time, and barely being able to sleep after the meeting because I'm so excited by the connection. And I realised I don't have social anxiety, I'm just anxious when I'm fucking bored and I'm tricky.

SPEAKER_01: 2:37

So it says it all, really, doesn't it? Um, and I started realizing that actually it's the deep connection that I want. And I gave an example in the previous episode of going to events and then just almost going to just one or two people and having really good, good conversations with them and not feeling this need to go and have to go and talk to everybody about small talk, which is basically just wasting my time and it has no value to me. And so I would much rather um go around to a friend's house, snuggle up on their sofa and have a good old giggle, sob, belly laugh, explore big ideas, and then just feel like that was an hour or two of my life really well spent. Where are you with this? Do you think sometimes it is boredom or is it genuinely anxiety?

SPEAKER_00: 3:29

Well, I do genuinely get the anxiety, so I have the anxiety and the anxiety is there. So that's I I can't say that that it's not anxiety because it is anxiety. However, I am someone who takes her slippers around with her. I just want to confess to that, and that's what I'm laughing about. So if I know I'm going to someone's house and slippers go straight in the bag, along with like probably a onesie or something, I'm um it's awful really because I just show up with a massive bag, you know, there'll be all sorts in that bag, and it's my little kit that I take with me, and people just they laugh, but they also love it because it's like, oh, here she comes, and I'm I'm like, I have to be warm, I have to be cozy. Simple as that. So if I'm, you know, and that's what I'm also like in the house. So as soon as it gets to like picking up Catalina, I come home, the first thing I do is put my s my slippers on and my um pajamas, no matter what time. So, like, you know, from four o'clock I'm in my pajamas, and I call it my uniform, and I'll say, right, I have to get my uniform on, you know what I mean? And and it is my uniform because I just I'm really happy like that. So there's that part of me as well that is you know very present, almost like showing up, and actually I feel quite proud of that part of me because she's so different to the old part of me who would have had a full face of makeup, hair would have been done, you know, whatever, a pair of heels on, you know, and and she was a lot of fun. But this side of me definitely feels like more real, and I love her, I love her so much. I'm so grateful that she's like come out of the box and is present. And um, it can sometimes be though, then when I have to go back out into the world and go to something, it can feel quite harsh. So I think I've become so comfortable in this sort of like retirement self. It's like the old the old lady needs to. I know exactly, and then I have to remind myself that I'm not there yet. And and even Rich will say to me, like, you know, I'm walking around in something quite nice and I've got my suppers on, and he's like, you know, he he's he'll say to me from glam to gran. And I I I do glam and I can do gran, you know, and and it's just this and it's okay because it as I said before, I do like to keep things like I do like to um laugh at myself because I think it's really, really important to just have a bit of humour about you know whatever we might be going through, and it keeps me real. So um, yeah, I'm all about acknowledge the anxiety, but also know that there's so many things that you can do to make yourself feel um warm, cozy, um, and honour the experience as well. What about you?

SPEAKER_01: 6:04

So I I want to speak to the boredom element a little bit more because I I don't tend to get social anxiety before the event so much. It's usually when I'm there, I'm like, and I I would say that it's more social overwhelm for me. Um, there's just too much going on, too much small talk, too many lights and loud noises and all of that kind of stuff that it just it cognitively it is an overload, and then I get to the stage where I'm just emotionally just done. So, in for me, going into those smaller spaces where I can connect with one human being, it just feels like I said, so much richer and of value, but I also get that energized feeling, you know, it is a very extroverted activity where I get my energy from other people. So as we're doing like this connection and we're exploring stuff, and um I become alive, and a bit like Jamila said, you know, you go home and you're just like buzzing because you've had such a good experience, and sometimes that happens when I'm just meeting my friend for a dog walk, and we'll be there in our scruffs, welly boots on, you know, um, especially in the winter time, and we just talk, and afterwards, you know, to be fair, the dogs couldn't have even been there, you know, because we're just focused so much on the connection between one another, and I think that's what really matters to me now. Um, and I've noticed that if I go through a period, and this is what I noticed during COVID as well, if I go through a period of where I've gone too reclusive, so I haven't really spoken to many people and I haven't really connected with anybody, that's the bit that really affects my low mood more than ever. I don't want the big, busy, noisy stuff, but I also I don't want complete seclusion. It's finding that sweet spot, and yeah, there is a lot of boredom. I've got to say, say it's sister recording these, you know, absolute godsend because we have the deep meaningful conversations on schedule every week. I know I'm gonna get my dose, and it's amazing.

SPEAKER_00: 8:05

Yeah, I agree with that. I I did notice though recently that when I was and I spoke to another mum about this, that when I was at events, I felt oddly disconnected from myself, like there was this distance, and it was like, why can't I fully connect into myself? Like I I just I'm really noticing it and I'm really like looking at other people and everyone seems to be sort of doing their own thing and having a good time.

SPEAKER_01: 8:30

Maybe they're just lagging it.

SPEAKER_00: 8:31

Maybe they're the same too, but I feel like it's almost like I'm watching myself, I'm observing myself, and I'm not fully there. Uh yeah, and for me it's like I'm in a like a snow globe. I'm in a bubble. And I I spoke to another mum and she said, Oh, I feel exactly the same, and we're the same age, she's a little bit older than me. And I said, You know, is it per what is it? Is it is it perimenopause? What is it? Like, why do I feel like that? Because I never noticed it before. Now, and I'm not saying that I wasn't like that before because I may well have been. Um but you're probably drunk and you were probably exactly so well, I you know, for me it was like, Oh, you know, it took my anxiety away, like drinking alcohol took my anxiety away because I'm a very thick I'm a deep thinker and I s overthink things. And so for me, like that part of my brain that gets triggered, then gets even more triggered, and it can be really, really hard for me. And I used to really struggle to relax, you know, and now it's much easier for me because I know exactly what to do, and I do it like you know, it's like going to school, it's like these are the things I do, and therefore I'm I'm able to relax and I get into the part of me that's very peaceful, who like I said, I only found her later on in life, and I'm so grateful she's she's around because I never knew that I was peace, I had no idea of that. So that's that's that's actually been liberating, but this distance thing is weird, and so we were talking about it, and the mum said to me, It was really weird this morning when my daughter was talking to me, you know, similar to your story, she was chattering away, and I didn't speak for ages, and I was just she was thinking to herself, make the sandwich, make get the water. She just went into this very basic thing and she said it helped her, but she wasn't really connected in the moment. And then her daughter said, You've gone very quiet. And she said, Oh, you've noticed, and she was like, and her daughter's seven, she's like, Yeah, you okay, mummy? And she was like, Yeah, and she said she just realized that she again was this in this sort of slightly retreated, um, further back place, and I I was like, 'cause I was like, yes, that's exactly Well, I've got to be honest.

SPEAKER_01: 10:28

Sometimes our kids, they just yabba yabba, yabba, and you've got to switch off. Sometimes it's survival.

SPEAKER_00: 10:35

Yeah, it's true, it's true. And then and we both have you know kids that talk a lot, so it there comes a point, it's like self-preservation when we're going to, you know, that you're in the self-preservation place, but that's okay too. But it it's like I'm I'm getting really curious about I don't have the answers today about what this is, this sort of distance from the experience, from being fully there, from the celebration point. And I'm I'm I'm curious, and I think some of it's perimenopause, and I think some of it is probably boredom, and I think some of it is um just having changed so much that it doesn't fit me anymore. And I think it's I think the latter is true for me in a lot of situations.

SPEAKER_01: 11:11

The and and it's kind of like I I had to grieve that person before. I've always been a deep thinker, I've always liked to have big discussions, but I've also really liked a little bit of frivolity of just a bit of silliness. And it the person that Perimenopause took away from me was probably that frivolous, silly person. And I I travelled all the way around Europe with my kids, just feeling meh about it. Didn't get the highs, didn't get the lows. It was I was just functioning, and that is something a lot of women say. And so I think sometimes when you get into that mode of just being a bit meh about something, and then you start finding the stuff that does light your soul, sometimes just being in big rooms with people who don't really matter in your big life scheme of things, um, you just yeah, you check out, there's just no, there's no commonality, there's no relationship there, there's no common purpose. So, yeah, you just disconnect. You're like, What why am I giving my energy for this? And if it's like a school thing, you're doing it for your child, so you want to get your child's eye contact. That's the bit that's important, not chatting to all the other people around you, because you know that at the end of it, you're gonna go home and you're actually not gonna talk to them again until the next nativity or sports day.

SPEAKER_00: 12:28

So I think it's a connection thing. Absolutely, and I think it's also about you know the most important thing is to acknowledge it because the stories that we can tell ourselves silently on the inside can be so dangerous and so damaging, you know, and get create more fear and more isolation. Because actually, I do want connection and I do want to have the right relationships, and I'll never forget when I was in the deepest, darkest tunnel. Um, you know, when there was everything was going off in my life, and I was in deep recovery, and I had the PTSD and everything, and COVID had also kind of come in, and but I was happy that I could retreat inwards, so that was really good for me. But I remember having this conversation, I had many conversations with many people actually, um, who were professionals, and you know, as Helen House was one of the people that I was working with, and she said, You've no idea what's on the other side, it's gonna be so brilliant, and so she those maybe these are not her exact words, but she's like the circles you are going to have will be incredible. Um, but I wasn't there, I was in this like and that pe and I was losing friendships and everything was breaking down around me. Um, kept my main one, which was my husband and obviously my daughter and my mum and dad, but it was like an exodus that was happening and it needed to happen, and but it was still breaking my heart, you know. To lose people is very, very difficult because when we lose our friends, we grieve and we go into grief, even if it's the right thing to do for our well-being. And it was it was a really fascinating time, and I remember saying, What's on the other side is just going to be so amazing, and so I think we have to go in and do the deep work, be present with ourselves, get support, have conversations with people that we know have got our backs, and do all of those things, and we have to grieve, and we have to say goodbye, and we have to let things go, and then there is a point over time, over years, where I can now look at my life and I'm getting emotional, and look at you at the other side of this conversation and go, my god, she was right, she was right. It was a long time coming, but when it came, and there's so many people that I love and adore, and I want to spend time with and I want to connect with them, and I want to be fully present, and I know I'm gonna leave here going, what a brilliant conversation, and this is what I live for, you know, and the rest of it I don't live for it, but it is part of life, isn't it? We have to go to certain things, so it's kind of balancing all that out. I guess it's so emotional too.

SPEAKER_01: 14:56

Yeah, and what's coming up for me is that that's so yeah, social anxiety, but the the part that comes after the social event where you felt like you're in a bubble or where you felt off, and that's the bit that I think affects me the most, where my thoughts then get out of control, and it's about how do I soothe that in that moment. So I'll give you a really good example. I was at um an 18th birthday party, it's I'm in that stage of life at the moment, and um and it was fabulous, and I've known this family for 16 years, so you know I felt like I belonged, and I decided not to drink, so I was driving, and I think I had one rum and coke or something, and as the evening came on, the disco was there, people were like filling up the dance floor, and I just danced. Um, because I got to that stage where I was like, yeah, I'm at ease here and it's all fun, and I just danced, danced, danced. And then I I went outside a few times and had some really deep conversations with people. Um, and that they were telling me stuff that I was like, not sure I agree with that. And so all of this stuff was going through my head the next day of like, oh, did I dance too much? Or um, should I have had that conversation? Or I wonder why they told me that thing. And that's the bit that goes into overwhelm. And then um some photos went up on um the socials, and I commented, it was a great night, and somebody said, Yeah, Lucy, you look like you were having a really good time. Now it might have been, yeah, Lucy, you look like you were having a really good time, but in that moment it was a it was a judgment, and that then started making me think, and I and I I wanted to speak to that really because it's it's that sense of I'm showing up differently, yeah. I don't feel like myself in those sit social situations, or maybe I'm becoming more of myself. Um, and then because the person who I was used to be would have shown up in a certain way, and that's what people expect, or that's what I expect actually, let's be honest about it. Yeah, um, and then this other part of me shows up, but that's where a lot of that anxiety or the social anxiety after the event becomes. I'm just really curious, do you do you get that, or is yours all in the moment?

SPEAKER_00: 17:15

No, um, yeah, of course I do, of course I do. And also I I if I haven't seen people for a long time, I can get very nervous about seeing them again because it's been such a distance of time, and I'm like, I don't know what to say. Will they like me anymore? Have they been judging me? Um, do they think I've changed? Of course I have changed, we've all changed, you know what I mean? It's ridiculous, really, what we we put ourselves through. Um yeah, so I I go through that and I want we all want to be like, don't we? We all want to be popular. I don't think we'll ever lose that. But my integrity and my sense of self is more important these days, but it doesn't mean that I don't grapple with and for example, when I went to the the party, I took, as I said last time, I took my parent, my mum and my my daughter, and there was another another old friend going who I also adore, and I'd said to her, Are you go are you going to the party? Are you going who are you going with? And she's like, I'm going with my husband, my husband's friend, my sister, my sister's husband, and I was like, Right, okay. And I just thought I was going to try and sort of tag on with her and we could catch up, and I haven't seen her for such a long time, and all the rest of it. And and then I was like, and I I just thought, Oh god, I don't belong, I don't belong, you know, went to this like I don't belong, or I'm not part of that, so therefore I can't sit with her. So who else am I gonna sit with? You know, like and it was just like this idea of going, Oh my god, I'm gonna go into a party on my own, and my best friend was like, You'll be fine, you'll be fine, and I just thought, actually, I won't be fine. I won't be fine with it at all because I'll be on such a high alert that I'll probably have a drink and wo and leave quite quick, which would have been such a loss for me because I didn't want to go there feeling awful and then leave on a downer. I wanted to.

SPEAKER_01: 18:53

So what I'm hearing is you your anxiety comes before with all the questions, mine doesn't, mine comes afterwards on the debrief. But it's just that awareness that it can crop up at any time, um and depending on your mood and where it is and all those kind of things. And so for me, in the aftermath, what I've realized is don't drink too much because that just makes it so much worse, and it's that element which is like I don't want to be that person anymore, but also to be a bit kinder to myself as well. Um, and so what I tend to do is go out uh for for walks, or I snuggle up on the sofa and watch nice movies. I do really comforting things, um, not to distract me from all those thoughts, but actually just to give myself a bit of care, I guess. Yeah. Um the things, a big hug around myself almost.

SPEAKER_00: 19:45

And that's what I'm hearing the self care, the self love, the recovery, the importance of almost like wrapping yourself up in a big warm hug that is so important when we're going through things like this, you know, not to sort of berate and not to sort of get the whipping stick out, but to be Like, wow, that was a lot, and I'm feeling a lot. And so, what I'm gonna do is give myself all this love. Like, that has got to be the biggest remedy for any woman listening, and I hope that people listening, women listening, can say, I'm gonna take that away because actually that's also what I do. Um, some people have a hot bath, some people like candles, you know, it doesn't really matter, but ultimately it's the intention behind the experience or that we're having that we can be like, Oh, I can actually be really kind to myself in this moment. I'm still feeling these feelings, but I can I can respond in a really loving way. Isn't that what life's about? To say that was hard and we're gonna celebrate ourselves. Um, sleep is a big one for me. You know, I think most things get resolved in our sleep, you know, so it's just reminding myself that it's okay to go to get in bed and have a little nap or you know, go to bed early. And I've started doing that more recently. I've started to sort of take myself off early on and say, right, I'm off to bed, and I feel so much better for it this week because I've been getting early nights every single night.

SPEAKER_01: 20:58

Oh, and this is the one benefit of having a clock change, you just get cosier earlier, and as we go into this um winter period, these Christmas extravaganzas, whatever they look like, we're gonna be peopling a lot, and we've got to be honest about it. And I know that for myself I've shifted my Christmases around a little bit, and so I'm usually at home or back at home on my sofa by about half eight, nine o'clock, ready to watch um some Christmas TV with the kids, and then we only really do that for about half an hour, an hour before they you know, by 10 o'clock we're all in bed, and you know, this is an 18 and uh almost 22-year-old. We're all done in by that stage, and then you've got popping to see that grandparent and that aunt and uncle and that old friend, and it just feels a lot, and so I just want to invite all of you to almost put some boundaries around your Christmas, and it's okay to say no to certain things, you don't have to see everybody in that short period. You can say, actually, Christmas period, I'm a bit overloaded. Can we meet in January? Let's put it in the diary now, or actually, should we do something over half term and make sure we honour it? And so I'm giving you this because these are things that I've learned over the last couple of years, and it took me a long time to learn these things. But actually, during COVID with a much smaller Christmas, I actually enjoyed it a lot more. Um, so what advice would you give to people entering this crazy season before we all go back to work in January?

SPEAKER_00: 22:41

Trying to not make it perfect, have an imperfect Christmas, whatever that looks like for you. Look at like what would what is the things that you want the most for this time for yourself? Because it is a holiday and it is a season um of gathering, but that internal gathering, and I'm just you know, people keep I I've heard the word perfect mentioned a few times in connection with me in the last two weeks. Now I'm the most I'm not a perfect person at all, but people keep mentioning it to me, and I'm like, do people see me like that? Because I don't see myself like that in any way, shape, or form. But there is so there's something for me around that too, where I've going, well, yeah, and actually I've noticed myself doing some things where I think, well, maybe I'll do that for that person, I'll do that for that person, and I'll add that in. And actually, I found myself this morning internally saying, No, it's enough. It's enough, I'm not going to do that. So there's been some shifts that have been happening in me because I tend to go over and above, and so I've just gone, no, it's enough, that's done. End of. Um, so that is a shift, and I want to bring that into people's attention. You know, it's a time when we go overboard and try to sort of like reset yourself a little bit within that and just think, is that enough? Do I need to go that extra? Is it enough? Um, and then just honour yourself in some way, because that's really important.

SPEAKER_01: 23:57

And so I guess the theme for where I am in my life, and I think for a lot of women in that midlife period is that sometimes smaller can be much richer. And that's the that's the thought I want to leave us all with today. Um, where can you yeah, just make your world a little bit richer? And over to you, Karen, to end this amazing episode.

SPEAKER_00: 24:24

And remember, perimenopause isn't just a hormonal transition, it's a spiritual one. We're shedding identities that no longer fit and learning how to show up as our truest selves. Even if that means leaving the party early or choosing one deep conversation over a room full of noise. Thank you for being here with us today and for listening, for feeling, for being brave. If this episode resonated, share it with a woman who needs to hear that she's not alone. Until next time, keep saying it, sister.

SPEAKER_01: 24:54

That's it for this episode of Say It Sister. If it moved you and made you think, or made you feel seen, hit follow. Share it with a sister and leave us a review.

SPEAKER_00: 25:04

And remember, your voice has power and your essence is wisdom. So speak your truth and live a true and empowered life. Until next time, say it, sister.