Matriarchy Isn’t Power Over - quite the opposite

We explore how love, care and community can be a serious strategy for change, starting at home and rippling out. Stories of protest, school halls, grandmothers and deep democracy show how matriarchy is a circle that centres children and the planet.

• choosing creation over chaos
• hope found in counter-protests and banners
• love not hate as practical method
• grief, safety and letting go as parents
• matriarchy defined as circles not triangles
• Mo Mowlam and deep democracy in action
• everyday leaders shaking stale power
• grandmothers’ lineages of care
• back-to-basics rituals for restoration
• women’s voices, paradox and storytelling
• naming fear and choosing self-trust
• school, scouts and food banks as civic hubs

We hope that you can feel the love in our own hearts and that you connect to your own and that you can bring some hope

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Transcript

Hope In Community Action

SPEAKER_04 0:42

We've all talked about it. So we must keep doing that. We must talk about what's going on in the world and all right. But really, as women, we're here to create. We're here to. And I think that we start to talk about the creative solutions and we start to imagine something different. Something that we really want to see. There is a shift. And actually, a lot of this shift is already happening. We're just maybe we're what we're pushing too much or we're too busy to notice the positive impact in our world, and we want to talk about that today. We want to talk about what matriarchy brings. We want to talk about, you know, this idea of love over hate. It feels like a really old-fashioned thing, and yet, really, when I go back to it, it's always about love. It's always about kindness. And we want to find ways to make that change in our own homes, in our own communities, and we want to take that ripple back out into the world.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

Yeah, and so this week has been a week of hope amongst the despair. You know, and we have gathered in Love Not Hate counter-protests. We've seen Helen Spencer win the Gorton and Denton by-election with words of community, unity, and hope. We have walked our streets and seen it decorated with over 500 hand stitch banners to remember women who lost their life just walking home by a brilliant uh movement called the Craftivists. Um, we've gathered with other parents to watch our children learn and grow and perform, and we've seen knitting groups decorate post boxes with spring themes of joy for no other reason than just bringing a bit of joy into the community. And we have gathered in peer-to-peer rooms on Zoom, and the focus is always about hope and finding solutions.

SPEAKER_04 2:36

I just want to share something, but I'm going to share it at the very end, and really it's about a song that I heard in my daughter's assembly with her class. Um, she's in year two, and when I say it has moved me beyond belief, I can't even like I have got already got tears in my eyes. I am going through a very emotional time right now in my life, and I'm seeing this need to really sort of focus on home life, on on love, on my own little patch. And you know, they're singing about you know, seeing each other's differences. Alice is crying as well. If you're crying, then I've got no chance, I've got no chance of you start. I'll say don't um don't expect me to contribute anything from this moment onwards. Um you know, really seeing each other's differences and choosing love. And when I say I sat there and I just felt my heart just sort of blew out of its shell, this is the best way I can describe it. And I keep listening to the song, and it it's just reminding me of like the innocence and the purity and how important it is. And you know, they were doing all the hand actions, and they were so in this song, and they were so there, I was like that's it, you know. Like, I want to remember that, I want to take that forward in my own life.

Safety, Grief And Letting Go

SPEAKER_02 3:51

And when do you know what they they wouldn't have it wouldn't have had the same impact if it was just one child singing it, they needed to sing it together, do it all together.

SPEAKER_04 4:00

I know, and and you know, when I saw the hand stitched banners that you posted and you I saw that and it took me right back to the death of Sarah Everard, and I remember I remember conversations I had around that, you know, and people were saying, Well, why was she walking through the park through Clapham Common at night? And I was like, that's the wrong conversation to be having. Like why should she write? Why should she not? Why should you know, like, why is she not safe going through the common? You know, like I lived in London for 10 years, and you do walk places at night, maybe places that you wouldn't do in other in other cities, because people are around, you do do that because you're moving from A to B and maybe you've been on the tube, and we have you know, you have to get public transport to get around. It's just part of being in a big city like that. So, you know, you go to any any European city, you'll see the same thing. Yeah, and why should we not? So I remember that, and it, you know, and this morning I watched my daughter walking up the path to school. The first time I've actually stood at the bottom and and watched her go up, and I couldn't see around the corner, and I wanted to cry again. I was like, I feel like I'm letting her go, and she's walking up this path, and it was such a symbolic moment for me, and I just thought, oh my god, it's like my heart's just like take a deep breath, take a deep breath, take a deep breath. Because the world that we're living in isn't showing me everything that I want to see, but there is also room for hope. So that's really where I'm coming. I feel like more than more now than ever, I need to focus on home, on family, and come back into what I'm actually creating. You know, it this isn't just about work, this is about life, and it feels like I'm being like what's going on in the world is pointing me back home in a way that's what I've never felt.

Home First, Then Sisterhood

SPEAKER_02 5:45

It's got to start with us and within our own homes, and the messages that we hear um that we consume, the way that we choose to live our lives, the messages we choose to teach our and share with our loved ones and our children. It starts there, but there's also about that being in community, because then once you've got your bit safe and doing okay, then you need to reach out to others because actually um it is about the sisterhood, it is about community, it is about joining. Um, and I know you wanted to speak about um Hannah. Yes, I did Gorton and Denton because she's done exactly that.

Everyday Women Shaking Power

SPEAKER_04 6:27

I think what's you know, what is so so refreshing is that she feels like one of us, like an everyday person who you know is out there working, you know, she's a plumber, she's just got her first seat in parliament. When I listened to her and launch her post, I just kept watching them because I was like, she's just one of us, she talks like us, she sounds like us, she looks like us, she um she's got so much fire and she just says it so directly and to the point, you know, there's no messing around. And I and I I I my my reflection on women is that is that is what we do. Yes, we say it and we keep saying it, and we don't stop, and we will like talk to anyone who will listen, basically, and we keep going for it. And I and that's what I saw in her, and you know, she's like, I get stuff done, I'm gonna shake things up. That's what I want to hear. It's like, hello, everybody who's sitting in those seats, just know there's a woman walking through the door who is gonna shake things up because it's needed, and so I feel I felt really like, oh thank God, it's it's finally compared to what else we're seeing in the world with other leaders that are not doing that, who are being divisive, who are separating, who are creating hate. You know, that is for me is the mirror opposite image.

What Matriarchy Really Means

SPEAKER_02 7:37

Well, let's just take a moment and listen to her words. It's only about thirty seconds, but here we go. Every every word I like yes, that's what I believe, that's what I see. Oh, it's just wonderful.

SPEAKER_04 8:47

But it is also, you know, a time for us to keep pausing and breathing and have meaningful hope and keep talking. I feel that that is absolutely vital because without that we get lost in the craziness of the world. So coming back in, evolving, you know, and really let's start to break this down a little bit for people so that we can talk about the systems that are in place and the systems that we, you know, how we see that things can evolve.

Circles Not Triangles

SPEAKER_02 9:14

Yeah, um so those wanting the current patriarchal system to sustain, um, they would have you believe that the term matriarchy is the opposite of patriarchy. Um that one that women as a whole will rule over men and men will be our subjects. Um, but it couldn't be more different. Um, of course, you know, women might have quite a few reasons to want to seek revenge, um, but our revenge is actually very different to potentially what the patriarchal system sees as revenge, because actually, our revenge is to live with love, with safety, community, care, and to be really child-centred, you know, to create environments where our children thrive. So we're we're building for the next generation, and that means looking after our planet equally. Now, as Louisa Omelian, comedian and creator of the brilliant God is a woman, the musical. It's not a musical, by the way, um, but she explains patriarchy as being a bit like a triangle. So you've got the the masses at the bottom of the triangle supporting everybody above, and then you've got this middle section who are doing all right, and they want to retain what they've got, not lock the boat too much. So, in a way, they're also sitting on everybody else, um, but they're they're trying to get up into the top top bit of the triangle, but actually that's reserved for the elite, the powerful, the mega rich, those with money influence titles land. Now, the way that she describes it is matriarch is more like a circle, where in the middle of the circle is where you have the planet, you have the animals, you have our ecosystems, and most importantly, really, you have the children. And everybody else is stood around the outside, maybe in their own little mini circles, but we're all equal standing shoulder to shoulder, um, trying to create a world and an environment that are safe for all. Um, and as you know, I am a social scientist, so I've studied so many different models of how people used to live, how people live or what might be possible. And there is no one right or wrong way, um, but there are certainly ways that are harmful to people and planet and systems that actually help. Um, and we see it through art, we see it through music, we see it through culture, we still see see it in filmmaking, this imagining of a better, more equal, more fair, more just society. Um so that's what I wanted to say on a little bit of education about what matriarchy really looks like. But what are your thoughts on this?

Grandmothers And Quiet Power

Breaking Silence And Speaking Truth

SPEAKER_04 11:54

Where do you see it in your life or I see it in that women are the stronger, you know, the strongest. I see, and I mean that from like just more resilient. And I grew up, you know, when I look at my family unit, because it takes me, always takes me back to family. It takes me back to that sort of like the patch I keep talking about. Like we take care of our own patch, and then that patch grows outwards, and then we all take care of each other. So it it's that, and I see that in the women in my family line, and the power of those women, and especially my grandmothers, who were just like one was half Irish and the other one was Spanish, and the Spanish grandmother, my Yaya, was actually quite gentle and quiet, and she was a real home giver and carer. Um, but she was the kindest woman, but she wasn't pushy in any way, she was actually the opposite to that. Um, but my Irish one was a true like battle axe, you know, said it as it was. You know, I mean most of the time you'd go in and she'd kind of be quite offensive. Um, but I I just knew that she had a massive heart, so she would like, you know, people believe in, like, I'd go in to see her. I used to go see her every single day. She lived in the same street where I grew up, and people were believing sometimes, like, you know, shuffling out because she'd said something quite offensive to them. Um, if she thought your hair didn't look good, she'd tell you. If she thought you needed a haircut, she'd tell you. Um, she just said exactly as she wanted it to be, but she was powerful. And when she looked at you with those eyes, I just fell love. Um, so I think of her, and I think about her life having four children, no money, um, you know, struggling, struggling, struggling. She also worked, and I just think, what a woman! Like I just see her as this powerhouse. Um, and I think that's often the case, you know, when we we look back and we look at the women and the men in our families, we see the power in the women. Um, and that is, I think, part of the threat of women, and perhaps that's why there is this all this constant desire to sort of control, um, to silence, because I feel like this is the work that I do as well. Women have the right conversations, they say it as it is. Uh we're getting stronger in that domain. I'd say that we're probably the most outspoken generation, um, and we're living through that time because we've got we can actually mobilize through social media and through our phones, so we can say something and it can be broadcast, and that's amazing. So it's like women are now not holding back, they are breaking silence and they are demanding the truth. And for me, that is all at the heart of this matriarchal system because when I listen to the conversations that my husband has, or I don't hear the truth, I just hear conversations, I hear them talking about everyday things, but I don't hear the depth. That does that mean that they're not having those deep conversations?

SPEAKER_02 14:46

Yeah, is it like a like the headlines of a newspaper they talk about, but rather than reading the actual article and then discussing it or talking about it?

SPEAKER_04 14:55

Yeah, they might they might go so far in with this is what I'm struggling with right now. I hear those conversations happening, but I don't really hear the true depth. Whereas that's just not the world that I know as a woman. And I think you know, as monitorers, I think this is where the power comes back in because we go, there's a problem there. I'm gonna go and have a conversation about that, and I'm gonna speak to whoever I need to speak to, and then together we're gonna create something that is different.

Street Matriarchs And Collective Care

SPEAKER_02 15:19

And it's I want to um I I just want to share a story about because you you got me thinking about my grandmother. Um, and she was she bought was born and died on the same street, um different house, but on the same street, and actually along that street were also I think four other women who raised their families and they died on that street. And there's this amazing picture of them when they're all in their 80s at the local park on a bench, chatting away like they always have done, and they absolutely were the matriarchs of that street. But the other thing that was really important about them is I mean, they they supported each other, they've gone through all the highs, lows, they gathered, you know, all the time, but they also, through their windows, they kept an eye on everybody else's children. Now, they probably were moaned at for being, you know, curtain twitchers and stuff like that. But actually, this is how women do it. We look, we we have eyes. It's not just our children, it's all children we're looking out for. Um, and sometimes you hear like some really negative connotations about like, sorry to say it, Karen, the Karen. Yeah. But actually, we we are suspicious of you know a stranger entering in. Now, some people are overtly prejudiced, so we're not talking about that side of it. We're talking about actually how women in community just operate, and we do talk and we do discuss and we do make sure that everybody's children um are doing all right. What we've got to make sure we don't do is the judgmental bit of thinking that we are better than somebody else, um, which it's easy to do through gossip, but we've all got to try and elevate ourselves out of that. Um, because when I see my grandmothers who have, you know, they were friends for probably 60 years, and that is just phenomenal. Imagine feeling that safe when you've got a community of women that you've had in your life for 60 years. I just it must be the greatest gift.

SPEAKER_04 17:21

Yeah, the word community, creativity, um, celebration, um, change, it's all C's today. Um they're the words that come up for me when I think about it. I mean, my whole family lived in the same street in Manchester, like, and actually the older generation still live in the same street of what's left. And so they grew up, so my grandmother had four children, and those four children lived doors down from her. I mean, it's kind of crazy. And so, as I was growing up as a child, you know, my cousins were also in the houses next to me, and so there was this community, and everyone did look out for each other, and you know, like my my auntie'd go like up the street, as she said, and she'd get like um, you know, she'd always get me uh pasty and a cream cake and bring it back for me, you know, during the school holidays.

SPEAKER_02 18:05

They'd also click clip you around the ear or give you the evils if you were up to no good. They were all parenting you.

Back To Basics: Rest And Ritual

SPEAKER_04 18:11

I mean it's hilarious, and obviously everyone knew what everyone was doing. You there was no secrets, you know, there just wasn't any secrets. Everything was out in like you know, public. Um, you know, everyone knew what everyone was doing, so that was that. And and you know what? I look back with fond memories and I think maybe we are going back in. I mean, like I said before, it feels a little bit alpha old-fashioned, but you know, and I I I have been thinking this weekend a lot about going back to basics. I've been like, you know what, what works for me, what do I do that I know, you know, what have I like abandoned um in this journey of life, you know, as I've become a mum and you know, life's got busy, like I've abandoned part of myself, and some of the things I've I've abandoned are my practices. And so this weekend I did yoga at home, I did some Reiki, I did um some like mindfulness and meditation, and I was like, this is this is actually gonna be non-negotiable for me, because if I'm gonna be out in the world, you know, if I'm gonna be leading in the world, which I am, um not if I am, I am leading in the world and I am out in the world. Let's change that. Um but if it's me sort of like stepping out and keeping stepping out, then I have to do these things, and this is not a nice to have. And I used to do it, but things have just like slipped, you know, and I that's my responsibility. So I think that's the thing. This back to basics, this it sounds so old, but actually it feel also feels right. It feels like now is the time to do it.

Restoring After Protest

SPEAKER_02 19:38

Do you know what? After because um I went to a counter-protest against um the far right in my town over the weekend, and it I mean it was just joyful. Um, it was proper community and singing and dancing, and you know, lots of love singles cymbals and stuff. It was wonderful, but it was a lot, it was a lot of energy, you know. There were police, there was the other side chanting some pretty horrific stuff. Um, so I got back and I just thought, well, my daughter was at work, so I thought, do you know what? I've got a couple of hours I need to restore. And actually, I took my two uh my two dogs out for a walk, and that's when I saw all of these banners. But the thing that was really special was that um at one point I could see the almost full moon and a really beautiful sky one side, and on the other side was the um the beautiful sunset, and that for me, well, I always I'm one of those people that always has to take a picture, so I took loads of pictures, but that is for me when I have to go and restore. I know that I can to be out there in the world and doing this stuff. I also need to come back to, like you say, the basics. So I'm really glad you mentioned that. Um, because we can't do this on empty batteries or distracted minds.

Mo Mowlam And Deep Democracy

SPEAKER_04 20:53

Absolutely not. Let's talk about this whole place of like coming together again and let's talk about you. I mean, I know you're you've got an obsession about Mo Mo Merlem. Um, talk to me about her and what she brings out in you from a matriarchal figure.

SPEAKER_02 21:07

Yeah, so when I first started on this understanding International Women's Day and things like that, I I remember writing a blog saying that when I grew up, I had women around me everywhere in leadership. We had the Queen at the head of the state, Madonna was head of the charts, Mother Teresa, we got Princess Diana, um, and of course we had Margaret Thatcher. So, from that perspective, we had like all different forms of women around us. So, of course, I thought, well, why can't I lead and be the head of a state? Um, it just seemed normal. But then as I got older, I I could see that they were almost being almost puppets or stereotypes, and I hadn't really seen a woman leading in a really authentic way, and then um in the 1990s, I mean things were pretty bad in um in that period with um the Well, the troubles they call them of Northern Ireland. And Mo Molam came on the scene, and she was phenomenal. She was a short woman, quite portly, didn't wear makeup, wore clothes that were a little bit dishevelled. But she came in and she was a truth-speaking, plain-speaking, heart-based woman, and she managed to negotiate the Good Friday Agreement. But before she came on, she had to try and get these two or three different groups who absolutely hated each other. They wouldn't even sit in the same room as each other. All they wanted to do was win so that the other party or the other group lost. And actually, Mo used something called deep democracy to actually get everybody in the room and to actually explain what it is that they're feeling, what it is that they really truly want. Imagine a future, not from a who owns the power, but from a what is it that you're trying to create, and it completely not immediately but completely shifted the space. And I just thought, actually, that's what women do. And around that time also became um the rule that if you're getting divorced or there's some kind of you know, and it's uh turning into a very expensive, horrible, messy divorce, um, that to bring in the rule of mediation where they would always refer you for mediation to try and talk these things through, which again is a very matriarchal way of doing it with diplomacy and discussion, and to try and take the heat out of it because we all know that in patriarchy, people and property it well, people are seen as property, they are prizes to be won, um, especially when it comes to the children, you know, and how you divide them and who spends what time with each other. But actually, through the mediation, it focuses it to say what is best for the child, how do we navigate this? Um, so I just wanted to just share that because there was a lot of stuff that has happened in our lifetime that actually we probably weren't noticing, but that matriarchal approach to discussion, to listening, to compassion, to you know, diplomacy, it's actually been coming in, and I that they were my thoughts on it.

Rule Bending For Human Care

SPEAKER_04 24:22

I think in moment moments of crises, that's when you tend to see these figures stepping forward. We're definitely in a time of crisis right now, so you know that's and I am seeing these matriarchal women step forward by the way. So I'm sort of comparing these times. Um, it was reminding me when I got hit by a car and I really like I was in a really bad way, and I had to wait for the operation. So I had like seven days in traction waiting for this operation because of the place where where the fracture was in my knee. And I was in London and I needed my mum, and there was this amazing uh man, he was a guy called Emmanuel, and as soon as I heard his name, because that's an archangel name, so when I went in, I was in such a bad way, and he said his name was Manuel, I'm gonna cry. Um this man was the kindest man I've ever I think I've ever met. And he was a black nurse. Um I don't know where he was from, I mean he was from Africa somewhere. And they would he said, Your mum will be here, don't worry. And he said, I'll let her stay outside of the um visiting times because I I wanted her with me the whole time. And he let he would sneak her in in the morning, he would sneak my mum in to the ward. I had an I had my own room, and he she was kind of hiding out with me, like in the back. I was crying, and um he was an angel, like he was a real earth angel because he could see what state I was in, and he knew that I needed my mum. I was 31 at the time. And there was some w there was also another nurse who didn't want my mum to come in, and he had it out with her. He was just like amazing, and obviously, you know, I wouldn't recognize I couldn't pull him out of a lineup, but I know with my heart who he is. You match his energy a bit like an elephant you never forget. Yeah, and I I just think for me, that's a form of matriarchy. That was like this is a woman who needs her mum, doesn't matter if you're 31, 51, 85. I still need my mum. And he he he bent the rules so I could get what I needed. And I'm like, that's matriarchy for me. That's like I don't care about the rules, I'm gonna do this, and yeah, so that's a share that kind of was coming up as we were talking because it's that feeling from within the heart that says this needs to happen, and that might not that might go against protocol right now, but let's find a way to make it happen because I care about that one person who's in that bed, or you know, for me that was it it was such a gift for me. Um, so I see that as something that we all have like the power to um change something for at least one person, if not like multiple people, and when we remember that and we remember what people do for us, I think I think it really is really is always search the helpers because they are everywhere, they really are.

Local Action And Everyday Leaders

SPEAKER_02 27:13

Yes, lots of people will turn their heads and look away, but you notice who rushes in because there are always helpers everywhere, and I I guess that kind of beautifully takes us through onto the next kind of like talking about collective, whether it's economic or social action, yeah. And again, look around because you will see that there are some really amazing community-minded people everywhere, and they might be the ones who are organising the Two Tins Tuesday for the local uh food bank on your street, they might be doing lunch clubs for the elderly um or litter picks, they are largely led by women, but there are lots of men who are involved in these community groups, um, a bit like in the because my my daughter's school, like when I go in there, I can feel the love in the school, and it's just quite an amazing feeling.

SPEAKER_04 28:11

You don't get it as you're dropping your kids off, but if you're in the building, you feel it, and so I noticed that last year, and I was like, Oh, I can really feel the love in here, it's like a beautiful thing, but they are doing so much for Lent, you know, it's um a Catholic school, they are so involved, um, and they get the kids organising it all. So the kids are like organizing stalls, baking cakes. Um, every day I've sending Catalina in with like money. Um, I mean, trying to remember it all is quite stressful because it's coming on every single day for a month. Um, but they are doing food back food bank collections, they're doing they've they've raised£500 last week, um, you know, for the local food bank. And I was like, you know what? This for me is the most beautiful thing and it's the most inspiring thing that I am actually experiencing right now because it's they're so embedded and embodied through their values, um, through community care and through doing something good. And so I want to celebrate that because it's you know, I think it's really, really easy to get caught up in that oh my god, I've got so much to remember on top of everything else, and see it as a chore or any inconvenience. Yeah, do I really have to go to that assembly when I actually should be doing work? Yes, I I I I need to be in that room. I need to be in that room and I need to be hearing about what they're doing for these food banks because I need my my faith in humanity be to be restored, and I think we can get so caught up in like the wider um thing of the world and life that we miss all of this beautiful stuff that's already happening, and we don't see it as something, we just see it as like, ugh, whatever, I've got that to do.

Women To Follow For Courage

SPEAKER_02 29:43

And and do you know what? As you probably well, I've spoken about it many times before, but I am a lead for um a scout group, but I'm very much part of all of the scout groups in the community, and um we are in an area of low deprivation, um, so people struggle, and uh every single time we do a fundraiser or we do something, it blows my mind at the generosity of people. Um, sometimes it's them physically helping to set up a stall or you know, sell some raffle tickets and stuff, other times it's people just turning up and giving us their money. It is phenomenal. But we um last week I had some amazing news because because of the work we do with the population and the community aspect, we were granted£7,200 from the National Lottery Fund to help more outreach, and I just thought this is just phenomenal. That people genuinely want to help us because we want to help other people, and there's a number of people that have um come on my like radar recently, a bit more celeb style, um, who I just want to celebrate, and then I want you to bring some of those so that we can almost like pinpoint some of our listeners to some amazing social action or community builders. Now, if you type in top 10 female or woman um social change or social justice, you will get a load of names. Some of these then will be familiar, but some of them maybe not, and go and find them on Insta. So everyone pretty much knows what OnlyFans is. Um, and there's a lady, a woman, she is phenomenal. Um, she's called Rebecca Goodwin. You might not approve of the way that she earns her money, but she has been homeless, she has um experienced abuse in her past, and now she uses her income to purchase properties outright and then rent to low-income families at affordable rents. I mean, that is just so amazing to take the money from the people who want to sexualise us um and then give it to families really in need. And then a few other names I just want to put out there. Baroness Doreen Lawrence, uh social justice campaigner um after the murder of her son. Greta Thunberg, Malala, Ashley James has just released a book called Bimbo, um, and it's about all of the stereotypes and all of the labels that we we've carried. She is phenomenal. Um, you might have seen her on Good Morning, but her um podcaster uh, hasn't she now? Um phenomenal. Laura Bates is the other one. Um she has written so many books, um, and that was just from her setting up a blog about everyday um misogyny, and it just blew up, and now she is just phenomenal. And one of my other favourites is Deborah Francis White of The Guilty Feminist, um, and her work is phenomenal. And yes, I could spend another 30 minutes, but they're my top picks. Who have you got to share, Karen, or people that we should be paying attention to?

Communication, Paradox And Story

SPEAKER_04 32:57

I would say Kirty Gallagher, because everything she posts just touches me in my heart, and I do believe in I do believe in the activism, like it has to be done, and we have to sort of go out there and use our voices, but I also feel like we also need to be finding people who um embody something that gives us something back, and that sort of receiving in, and everything I see from her, like I take it, I take a deep breath in. It's like, oh thank God, you know, and and you know renaming what I'm feeling, yeah. Yeah, it's always on point, you know. Everything I read is on point, it speaks to me, it gives me permission to just go, oh, okay, yeah, that's why this is this makes sense. Everything does make sense, and she comes from the heart, and she um she's definitely on the white side of woo, but yeah, she does it with such beauty and grace, and but she's also not sugarcoating anything, you know, like it's direct straight to the point. I think that's the thing for me now. I need people who do not sugarcoat, people who do not the only way out is through. You know, when you're there, your heart's breaking, and you're like, I know that, but that's not really helping me right now, you know.

SPEAKER_02 34:06

Like we're not going on a bear hunt.

SPEAKER_04 34:08

It's like, you know what I mean? So, like I I have no space and time for that. Um, but I have a lot of space and time for her. And you know, there's people like Mother Pucker as well, who are talking about like women's rights and how hard it is actually to be like we talked about this in the last episode. Being a mum is really hard work, and she shows the real side of being a mum and be you know with a young baby and a young child and stuff. So I'm all about those types of women who are very real, but that they give me something that makes me feel like take a deep breath. Yeah, um, they're my ambassadors, really. They're the they're the ones that I look forward to seeing what they're doing next.

SPEAKER_02 34:44

Yeah, go go find them, um, go hang out with them. Uh they they are just phenomenal, and they give you it's almost like they pop up on your feed with exactly what you want at that time. And then then what I would say is put your phone down and then go outside or rest or breathe or stretch because we can't just constantly be consuming, but what you do consume needs to be from the right people, um, and these are just some of our favourites.

SPEAKER_04 35:09

Yeah. Um, let's talk about communication. Yes, well, you are the communication expert. Uh I used to be. Um, one of you know, for me, like communication is so so so important, and really staying open to communication because it, as we know, it's not just about what we say, it's about how we feel, it's about what we are sensing, and it's about also what we're listening to on the inside. That inner knowing is such an important part of communication. Because if we don't actually listen to the internal um voice that's coming up, and we don't actually feel into that, then we're probably not having the right conversations in the right rooms. Um, so I want to say that. Um, for me, this is very much about staying open, it's about listening deeply, it's about having like space for laughter, space for tears, and just being in those conversations and really talking about, you know, like we are the storytellers, we our strategy is love, but we also rage, so it's kind of holding space for all of that. Um so I wanted to get your views on it.

Naming Fear And Choosing Self-Trust

SPEAKER_02 36:11

So women, well, all humans, but women in particular, you said about their strength, and one of their greatest strengths is to be able to live in that paradox where we can hold two, three, four different experiences or truths that may appear opposing, but because we are again cyclical people, we are circular people, we are creative people. Actually, we know that we can hold it all at the same time, and I think that very much it scares some people because they they they need to be efficient, they need to have just one answer, one solution. Um, but that again, it's a bit that's the patriarchy telling you to find a solution and fix it. But actually, women are amazing at holding all truths, and that does come out through storytelling. So, even when you look at the the old stories, so all of the Brothers Grimm stories that we are very familiar with, they are old women's stories that have been passed down generation to generation that were then written by some brothers, um became very popular, and it's almost like we've eroded the key message. But actually, when you do look at it, you can see what the true message is because that's how women communicate through stories, through sharing their lived experiences, through sharing advice, through their art, but also through the warnings. Um, and yeah, the stories that we tell ourselves as well, we're trying to get meaning and stuff. Listen to it and look look for the coincidences, look for the patterns that keep coming up and um and communicate it, share it because if you're noticing it, somebody else is noticing it and somebody else is noticing it, and that's when we start that that movement, that change.

SPEAKER_04 37:59

There's something coming up for me about the internal dialogue as well, because when we are in fight, flight and freeze, which I think most of us have been in since we came out of like into this year, um, the internal dialogue can get really, really quite scary. And what I've started to do is just really name stuff very clearly. So, for example, when I get into fear and it's like, oh, I I I don't know if I can handle this, or I don't know if if I've got enough of what is needed, or whatever it might be, I am directly saying to myself, I'm naming it and I'm saying I'm ready for this, I can handle that challenge. Like it it it's coming from a deeper place, actually, it comes from more from the gut and kind of comes up the body, and I am ready to put that, you know, that issue down, just really, really clear conversation with myself. So rather than because I think what can happen is we distance ourselves from the fear because it's a form of survival, so we're like, I'll distance myself from that, and we don't actually have the conversation within ourselves, and therefore it just runs around in circles inside us, and we're still in the energy of the fight, flight, and freeze because that is a feeling that's inside the body, and we're not tackling it, and then life is going on around us, and we're seeing more and more things, and we're seeing more things coming through our phone, and we're like, you know, it just gets it's just getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger, and we have to find a moment to say actually no no to that. What the hell is going on on the inside? What am I saying to myself that I can't do? And then let's shift it. And it's not about just flipping the mindset, there's more to it than that, but you we have to take control of ourselves on the inside and be like, that's actually bullshit. Um, I don't know how many times we need to prove ourselves over and over again before we finally believe that we're capable. Um, so it's there's something like that for me that's been really like, and just like I'm putting that down now. I'm done with that, I'm done with that worry.

SPEAKER_02 39:55

Yeah. I I completely agree with you. And there was um uh a LinkedIn post I saw this morning about um how some commentators, some writers or whatever you want to call them, are trying to gaslight women and just saying, well, women are lying to themselves, um, they're not happy being single really, or they're not happy being childless, really. Um, and the comment I put back was actually we spend our whole lives in self-doubt and questioning and um talking to our besties about do you think we should do this or should we do that? And then when we get to that point and we say, No, I am happy, or no, I did want children, I couldn't have them, but I'm gonna make the best of this. Or no, I no, yes, and I do want a career, or I do want to say my voice. Actually, that comes from the most knowing place, and like you say, it comes from the stomach. Um, so I think there's something there about yes, you're allowed to have the doubts, but you can't stay there at some point. You've got to feel it in your gut, and whether you talk to a best friend, a coach, go to a women's circle, or just say it to yourself, there's something about reclaiming that because you've yeah, we've been through the process too many times.

SPEAKER_04 41:07

Absolutely, and we're gonna have to keep doing it, you know. It's not like uh you know every day, it's like right, just for there's a Reiki saying, and it's like, just for today I will, you know, trust, love, live in harmony, or something like that. Those aren't the exact words, and there's just something about that commitment for that day, and then the next day you get up and you go, just for today I will, you know, and it's like, and if we do that every day, just for today I will trust myself.

Closing With Love And Awakening

SPEAKER_02 41:30

You see, I like the words I choose to, they're the ones that land with me because um I will will resonate with some, but there's something because of my personality style. Um, I have to choose this, or I say yes to this, and it that to me feels that like that really gut um affirming thing. But I'm afraid we've drawn over the half an hour.

SPEAKER_04 41:54

You never ever ever have enough time for these conversations, but that's life, isn't it? And hopefully we've we've covered enough ground because to be honest, we could talk and talk and talk about this subject as we do most days.

SPEAKER_02 42:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 42:06

So I'll hand over to you to yeah, make make a close. So I want to play this beautiful, beautiful song as we go through um the closing. So should I play it now, Lucy? Play it now, go for it.

SPEAKER_02 43:01

Because uh it's definitely about love. I can hear that.

SPEAKER_04 43:05

And we hope we have it inspired you today. We hope that you can feel the love in our own hearts and that you connect to your own and that you can bring some hope. As the flowers are coming back onto the trees, it's time to awaken. Thanks for joining us, and thanks for this heart led chat on Say It Sister, and thank you so much, Lucy. You're always the best person for me to share a conversation with.