Life On Our Own Terms

We talk about midlife as a coming of age, where we stop apologising and start building a life that fits our needs, our bodies, and our values. We share the parts of ourselves we once hid and how freedom becomes real through honest choices, not perfect circumstances.
• Gen X freedom myths and why conditioning still grips us
• creating small windows of liberation through planning and commitment
• redesigning life yearly through honest self-questioning
• rejecting “women of a certain age” and owning menopause openly
• reclaiming wildness as energy and leadership rather than performance
• living with ADHD and letting suppressed opinions back out
• channelling bold truth with wisdom when calling out bias
• embracing eccentricity as a way to spot what others miss
• using grief and change as prompts to explore new parts of self
• dreaming without practicality first and widening what feels possible
• learning from money-driven choices that ignore the heart
• trusting a soft landing and taking life one step at a time
we would love to hear your thoughts on the topics that we are sharing.

Send us a comment, ask a question, or suggest a topic. We would love to hear from you

Transcript

Why Freedom Still Feels Hard

SPEAKER_01 0:06

Cameron and my two old friends gather every week to have the conversations we normally have in private about the things that really matter to us and we share them with you out loud and we would love to hear your thoughts on the topics that we are sharing. So this week's topic, well, it is a conversation about living life on our own terms. And look, we are Gen X women, and we grew up being told that we could have it all, and we had the whole music backdrop with the lyrics about freedom and peace and unity. You know, the iconic Belinda Carlyle's uh words of live your life, be free are going around in my head right now. And then we had George Michael, and all he sang about was freedom, and then on our uh during our nurseries, we had the Rolling Stones um verses of I am free. Yes, here we are in 2026, and looking back on our lives, knowing that we are more free than any generation before, but there's still a lot holding us back. We're still caught up in societal conditioning that has kept us all a little bit trapped. So perhaps for our generation, midlife is really a coming of age story. Rather than back in the day when it was all about teenager and the breakfast club, this is our time. This is when we finally step into ourselves and we begin to live the life on our

Mallorca And A Taste Of Liberation

SPEAKER_01 1:35

terms. So let's say hi to Karen, who actually brought this topic to the table.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Hey there, you alright? I'm very good. I just got back from three days of living life on my own terms in Mallorca, celebrating my 50th, and the I just the concept going into from the concept to the reality of doing exactly what I want when I want, eating what I want, um, saying yes to that, no to that, quick decisions, it was just wonderful. So it was definitely a time of wow, I can dream and I can design my life differently, and I can create these windows or these pockets of life that feel very much like a space of liberation, and it is all possible, but it doesn't come easy. So, you know, for me, like this whole topic of living life on my own terms requires a lot of planning and a lot of commitment, and also like being willing to sort of go, I actually want that for myself. I want to have those experiences again, like I used to when I was younger. I want to feel free again. I don't want to feel like I'm shackled or trapped. I want to feel like I can see something and do it and book it. So I there's a lot of like for me, it's a it's a this is a time of refocusing and it's a time of just being myself, being true to my own needs, being true to my desires, even if it feels like it's a three-day window, and then working out how I can unfold that, you know, in everyday life as well. I feel like for me, this is about me being Karen, me being the woman that I already am, and it's about not apologising for my dreams and for my visions, and then being very determined that I will make something happen. And it's not about being a harmoniser for me anymore, it's more about I have this dream, I have this need, and how am I gonna get there? What do I need to make it happen? And not apologising for it, and not apologising for the fact that I'm not done yet. You know, I think we had this, I don't know about you, but like it was like, you know, a woman in her 50s, and maybe this is for every young person, feels like it's like, oh my god, your life is over, you know, like and I remember looking at my mum when she was 40 and thinking she was really old. And now I'm here in my 50 in my 50th year, and I'm just like, oh, it's such it's such a lie. Who says we can't live the life that we want to live? And who says we can't go out and reach for our dreams again? And in fact, that this is very much the work that we're doing together with women, and it's like each stage and each phase of life is different, it does feel different, you know. And I would say every seven years or every ten years, it feels like I go through this huge shift, but I'm always every year I always re-question myself and say, What do I want now? Like, what's my vision, and you know, where do I want to go and and who do I want to be associated with? And so I do that every single year. So in a way, I'm redesigning my my life every year, not just you know, because I'm in now I'm probably in menopause, you know, like it's it's a different thing. So I think it's really, really healthy for us to sort of take a deep look at ourselves and say, This is where I am, this is what I want, and these these are the steps that I'm going to take. And the only way we can do that is if we're really honest with ourselves.

Ban “Women Of A Certain Age”

SPEAKER_00 4:55

And something quicks keeps coming up for me every time I hear like the phrase women of a certain age, I feel like it's just so um toxic for women because it's almost saying it's like a shh, don't mention like it didn't it used to be don't mention the menopause, don't mention it. It's like the change, you know. So it gave it was given a different name, which totally diminished the phase of life that menopause is, made it more.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

Let's just be clear though, it's only men who are using that women of a certain age, really, and they're trying to use it as a slur. Um, and I absolutely agree, let's just ban it because I don't think women have ever used that phrase about another woman. No, um, it's definitely a slur. So yeah, let's just let's just ban it on our own terms.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

Yeah, and and it and it's just about really owning owning it, owning every single part, you know, like can be in like, you know, I was in perimenopause last year, now I'm in menopause, like, you know, I'm going into that like other phase. And I want to own it. I don't want to be like, oh, ooh, I've gone from perimenopause that still feels quite young and youthful, and now I'm in like you know, postmenopause actually. And underneath this hair, underneath this colour of this hair is white. And whilst I'm still dyeing my hair, I just really want to own it and be like, I don't want to lie about things, I just want to be too truly present in who I am, and you know, for me, there's just this this whole thing around craziness and women, and I think women fear being seen as crazy, and I also have

Reclaiming Wildness Without Performing

SPEAKER_00 6:31

that. Sometimes I'll look at pictures and I'll think, Oh, I look like I'm having too much fun, or I look like I'm slightly like crazy in that picture, but actually that's a big part of who I am because I've always been somebody who can like it because I'm a sensitive type. If there's excitement in the room, I'll be one of the first people to feel that excitement, and then I'll start to I'm almost like I've gone off like a firework in the corner, and I've always been like that. I can sense anything, and those feelings are so strong in my body that when I'm like untapped, I just go and I go quite big and quite bold. The rest of the time I'm pulling myself back to try and not be that, and it's like a tension.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

I have to say, um, last year when we did our photo shoot for Wise Women Lead, um I mean, being on camera, it's always a bit icky for me. Um, but a lot of your photos that you were taking, you have felt much uh more in your power when you weren't smiling and you were looking quite intensely at the camera. But my favourite pictures are the ones where we had the confetti and you're just laughing and we're dancing, and um your your radiance comes out. Now I didn't see that as crazy at all, I just saw that as just beautiful and heartwarming. So it's really interesting that the word crazy because I've never seen crazy from you, and I'd like to invite more of that craziness out. Where where did this did somebody call you crazy? Yeah. Okay, that's where it's coming from.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

Well, when I was when I was in, you know, I was 28, I had a really I got given this huge promotion. I was, you know, like it was incredible, really. I look back and I go, wow, and I was head of department and I but I was I was really good at my job, I was highly creative and all the rest of it, but I also had a very wild streak, and I've always had that wild streak. And so there was a part of me that was just that was crazy and wild and you know, living life to her fullest expression. And so there was like some people in the team who were in another team that used to call me crazy with a K, like crazy Karen, and they'd be like, Hey, crazy, you know, and um I'm really making myself like sound like I'm in the eighties here. But I laughed and found it hilarious, you know. So that it was almost like there was a part of me that really enjoyed being the crazy one, the one that sh that was like really full. But actually, I think some of it was a performance as well. I know that the real wild one inside of me isn't looking to perform, she's just like there when she comes through, she's so much fun, and it's so it's not a performance thing. And I think I got into the performance of crazy when I was younger because I felt like that was the expectation that people, you know, I had to be the good time girl, I worked hard, I played hard, people look to me to sort of like bring the party almost, and I did that for a long time, and then I was like, I'm done with that, I don't want that anymore. But there is a wild part of me that is like cannot be contained, and when she comes through, it's really quite wonderful, actually.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

And I normally have that more crazy Karen, please. That's what I'm demanding.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

Tell me about your stuff though, like when do you where what are you hiding from the world that will serve in a different way?

ADHD And The Cost Of Silence

SPEAKER_01 9:46

Um when you mention this topic and maybe some of the questions that are coming up, it really struck me actually because um over my lifetime, the things that I've been uh told is that I am too much, that I am a force, that I'm too driven. Um there was definitely you're too opinionated, because I've always had um this justice, you know, this things that I deeply care about. And me and my daughter were talking about this the other day because um we we saw something um about um the how oh it was Zulu, that's right. So I watched Zulu, this epic film, when I was probably about 12 or 13, and whoever I was with was like, Oh, wasn't Michael Cain amazing. And I was like, it's horrendous. The the treatment of those people. We went to their land and we treated them like this. So I've always had these slightly off the wall kind of different ways of seeing things, and then I was told that I was wrong. And so I guess a lot of my thoughts or my opinions or me joining the dots on things, um, I learned to suppress because I could see that the world was absolutely fucked up, or these people were not acting in a way that was cool, but I learned to suppress all of that, even though I'd still feel it inside, I never condoned it, but I would allow whatever the behaviour, the treatment, the words that were being used to carry on. That's the part of me that was suppressed. Now, as I got older and my daughter was diagnosed with ADHD, I also got diagnosed, and I'm like, right, that explains a lot because obviously, having a neurodiverse brain, of course I was gonna see things a little bit differently, and of course I was gonna always be told off for being too much, too much in your face, too loud, too bouncy, all of those things. Um, and so that was the part of me that was suppressed. However, now I embrace the ADHD, neurodivergent woman that I am, and I love all of those parts of her, but the bits that I need to let out is being a bit more vocal about my opinions. And if something, and I mean I do, if anybody does says any phobias or isms around me, anything sexist, racist, homophobic, I'm the first one there, but I've learned to do uh to challenge it or to name it in a much wiser way now. So rather than burning people, I've got like these embers that are are there ready to inflame, or sometimes just give somebody a little bit of a lightning bolt just to put them back in their place. It's much more wise and discerned now. But yeah, it was quite quite interesting when I was going back and like, wow, I hadn't realized how much I'd suppressed and how much liberating it is when you do actually get a diagnosis, even like you say, finding out you're not going crazy, you're actually impairing menopause, having that label sometimes really helps. Like, ah, now I can let my full self out.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

Yeah, and it's interesting,

Letting Every Part Of You Speak

SPEAKER_00 12:55

isn't it? Because the things that we you know living on our own terms looks like being all parts of ourselves. This is what we're saying. And when we suppress a certain part of ourself because we feel like it's not acceptable or it's not the norm, we actually suppress something that's major, and actually what's really needed, because for you, like your your ability to know when something's off and when something's not right, and to be able to call that out, when you suppress that opinion, you're i there's something that sort of dies inside of you, I'm guessing. And also then that service point of saying, actually, that's that's just not acceptable. Is anybody else is anybody else picking up on this? Like the way that comment that was made or um that decision that's just been made is biased, you know, and it's and it's biased against women or it's biased against gay people, or whatever it might be. And so that part of you is suppressed, but also it doesn't bring the full picture to the table, and it's the same for me with my wildness, and that's just one this is just one part of me. There's many other parts of me. But when I don't allow the wild one in me to come forward, like the my energy gets suppressed, and actually often that's what's needed, you know. When something is channelled correctly and we know we have the skills, this is what this stage in life is giving us. It's giving us that sort of skill inside us to say, I've got something to say, this is really important, and I'm going to flake, I'm gonna let the embers rise of that up, and I'm going to channel it, and I'm gonna use all my skills that I've learned over my lifetime to channel it. For me, wildness is not about alcohol, it's not about partying, it's about a really amazing energy that comes through me that gets stuff moving, and when I'm in that energy, other people feel it. Like I could go into a workshop and lead something that was that would that most people would go, I can't do that, that that makes me feel uncomfortable. But I'm like, if we're getting in, we're women, we're getting into our bodies. I can take that energy of being in my body and I can create from it, and women feel safe with me, and they will find their own version of it. And so you've got a load of women in a room um connecting deeply to their own bodies, to their old their own sense of who they really, really are, letting that come out maybe for the first time in their lives, and everybody's doing it together, and we we feel the impact of that, and it and it it changes us in ways that our brains can't work out yet.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

Do you know what? I love that when you and I work together in that sense because you are definitely the embodiment and give women the confidence to, you know, you go first and then they follow. But I have got the skill of saying the thing, and again, when I say the thing, it then gives others that confidence to go, oh actually, yeah, that happened to me, or yeah, that's how I feel, or that's what I thought. And so the combining of the the head and the heart, or the you know, the body and the soul together, it it is really phenomenal how um, yeah, when we bring our gifts together, um, because we're both quite bold when it comes to that.

The Power Of Eccentric Thinking

SPEAKER_00 15:56

Yeah. Well, it's it's the service piece, isn't it? Like you know, with the CTI leadership model, there is a type that's called the eccentric type, and it's the one that's the most like misunderstood because they see things differently. So everybody's got like a view on something, and then the eccentric types come in and they'll see it completely differently because they're eccentric, and then when we can all hear that, they bring something different, and very often when it's channelled and it's to serve something bigger, it's really, really magical because they've caught up they've caught on to something that we've all missed, you know, in our other types, and I'll never forget that because I'll never forget like when it's channelled and we're serving a purpose, then we need all these different elements of ourselves to come forward because otherwise we just get the same one note. It's like going to a mu uh to a concert and just listening to one note on a piano. It's really boring, and actually there's no there's nothing unique about it, and there's no nuances or you know, do you know what the orchestra's not working?

SPEAKER_01 16:58

I I don't know about the listeners, um, but for me, I have always found the eccentric type the more interesting that I've like kind of drawn towards them, or I just can't stop watching them or listening to them um or observing them, whether it's dance or any creative endeavours. And I also think that everybody has that eccentricity in them, um, but they're so caught up and consumed with what will people think, and uh you know, I'm should I tap my feet at this point? Should I say something now? And they're so caught up in their own heads and questioning that they actually miss all of the really key important information or that this is your time to move, this is your time to speak. Um, because I do think that everybody has got part genius in them. Um, but yeah, we just don't let it out, we don't even allow ourselves to go and explore that.

Grief As A Doorway To Self

SPEAKER_01 17:52

And yesterday I was listening to oh, what is it? It's um BBC Radio 2's uh morning love songs, and this woman came on. I think she was about 47, 48, and a couple of years ago she'd um she'd got divorced, and within the same year her father died, so she'd gone through this huge amount of grief. Um, and she was listening to Sunday love songs to you know give her hope that there is love out there, anyway. She said that um she spent a year really exploring those untapped parts of herself, and she said she started going to do breath work, she went to a festival, she joined um a pottery club, and she was saying about all these different parts of herself that she'd suppressed, and she just thought, I'm gonna have a go. And in that, her whole world opened up, and the people that met her in her new version of herself were just all the people that she'd ever wanted because they were matching her full energy, not the repressed energy she'd had previously. And I just thought, yes, that's a woman living her life on her own terms, so much so that she had to write in and get on the show and talk to Michael Ball and say, you know, this is what is possible for all of us, it was amazing.

Time Is Precious So Say Yes

SPEAKER_00 19:02

Yeah, and that's really touched me. I think it's that you know, often when we lose someone and we go into that space of like huge grief. Now we've still got our parents, and for me, like I have this thing on the sort of like it feels like it's on the shore of knowing that I'm gonna lose my parents, and it's I'm I don't know how many years I've got left with them. And it feels like it feels really important to note that life is precious and life, you know, life changes and you lose people, and it's really, really important for us to sort of listen to our own needs and to say, you know, who am I, what do I want? Because if not, we it's almost like we're wasting some precious time and precious life, and and it's really important to me that. And I and I I know that for me, like taking care of myself and taking care of my own needs and listening deeply on the inside, is what makes my life work. And it's what makes my relationships work. And so, you know, as you're telling that story, I was sitting there thinking, you know, it is about doing that breath work class, it is about um learning something new, it is about the pottery, it is about drawing trees, you know, or you might do your crocheting. Um it's about all of that, and it's about allowing ourselves to have all of that and not apologizing or hiding it and then talking about it. Like, I don't know, I it's like it it's almost like we hide these things away, and then it's like a guilty part of us that can sometimes we can get, you know, that you're doing your reading, I'm reading more again, like, and I'm so loving my books that I'm reading. I've gone for fiction books, but around Cleopatra and Hecate, and it it's I'm losing myself in these books in a way that I've for such a long time, and as I read about it, I almost feel like I'm remembering parts of myself that I abandoned. And for me, that's living life in my own terms, and it's it's getting into bed and you know, like spending like an hour reading before I fall asleep, and I can't wait to do that again tonight. And it's like I'm rediscovering me again in a different way to before because I really appreciate it, and I appreciate that I'm here, and I appreciate that like my eyes are still able to read because sometimes my eyes hurt, you know. Um the things that I took for granted before I don't take for granted knowing that my parents are on that shore over there, and I don't know how much time I've got left. Like I appreciate now that time in ways that I couldn't before, and it's a really beautiful thing, and I want to share that.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

Thank you. Thank you.

Empty Nest Freedom And New Identity

SPEAKER_01 21:47

It's uh uh it is something that plays on my mind, and I'm at that period in my life where uh well my um my stepdad who I lived with from the about the age Of five. In a couple of weeks, he turned 70, so he was he was the toy boy. And we're going away and celebrating him. And so I've got my both my parents, all my parents are in their 70s now. But then I've also got my children at the other end where they're about to go into this adult life. They've both secured uh full-time permanent contracts, and yeah, they're they're out in the world making decisions. And like Evie said to me the other day, you know, Oh, what time do you want me home? And I'm like, Evie, you're 18 now, you've left college, you don't need my permission. I said, But if you could come in before 11, because otherwise, you know, you'll disturb me. And it was all good. But I'm like, what's my what's my role in this period? Um, because I don't yet need to care for my parents because they're they're fit and able, and my children don't need me so much, and um, I actually get to live life on my terms every single day because I don't have um a partner and I don't have to consider them. Um, so it's a really strange time for me. Um, and as I approach 50, I'm thinking, okay, what is what is this next decade going to be like for me? Because actually, I've got nobody telling me what I can and can't do. Literally, the only person that would be holding myself back is myself, and that's quite a lot of responsibility as well. When you you realise literally, I've got nobody else to consider, maybe for about the next five years, other than myself. And I mean, that's a gift that not many people get. Absolutely, absolutely. And I can clarify, I'm not gonna lie.

SPEAKER_00 23:39

But what is it that you're doing to support yourself? Because it you know, the feeling of fear and the feeling of excitement, it's the same. The difference they say is breath, you know, and we can we can cultivate both, we can both cultivate the fear and we can cultivate the excitement, but just know that they are friends in a way. So, where does that take you?

Dream First Then Plan Later

SPEAKER_01 24:01

So at the moment it it's less fear, um, it's more excitement of dreaming at possibilities, and what I'm having to do it um to contain myself is just to allow myself to dream, so not make any decisions, just stay in the dreaming phase. So, like, oh, I could do this and I could do that rather than I could do this, so how would I make that work and how much money would I need? And da-da-da. I'm not allowing that to come in at this stage because what I'm trying to do is uh open myself up to just possibilities, and like I said, it's uh it's a bit of a weird one because um the only thing I mean, like on the extreme of it, it literally is selling it, selling everything, buying a camper van, taking my dogs, and literally just driving around the world. Because I was thinking, you know, literally as long as I've got um a roof over my head, which could be a van, and a passport, what else would I need? Well, I need Wi-Fi to be able to talk to you and to do this work, but um, but that's literally on the extreme of it, that's what I could do, and I could like be one of these nomad off-grid people who literally has a different, a bit of a hobo, really. But on the other side of it, um, I'm like, okay, well, actually, I could pour all my energy into the business and just spend 100% of that and just see what comes there. I could write another book, I could actually move abroad, and so then it just gets bigger and bigger and bigger. And and our conversation last time, where we were talking about the Edith Eager, who didn't write her book until she was in her 70s, it made me realise the more I dream up, actually, hopefully, I've got another 40 years on this planet, maybe I could do it all. I don't just have to do it all next year or all in the next five years. So that's how I'm doing it. Um, I'm allowing the dreams to come, and I'm not getting into practicalities yet because that just squashes it. That's where the fear comes in.

SPEAKER_00 25:58

I love that, and I think this is definitely what we're seeing,

When Money Choices Shrink Your Life

SPEAKER_00 26:02

isn't it? That when we start to look at the money, when we start to look at how we're gonna live, how we're gonna earn and do all of those things. Now we know that we need to earn money because that's part of the world that we live in, but as soon as we start to put that stuff in, it squashes us. And I've made decisions in my life where I've taken jobs because they've paid me 20 grand more. And when you look at two jobs in black and white on a piece of paper, and you that one's giving me, you know, gym membership, packages, really great pension, um, you know, the 20 grand plus on top of the really good salary. Look at that, and then I looked at the other one, which was really great people, the work I wanted to do. I mean, there were so many reasons, and I chose I went for the money. Now it was still a good job and all of that, but I went for the money and I made the it was one of the worst decisions I ever made in my c in my corporate career. It was brutal. And I've shared bits and pieces about that, you know, like the woman who was crazy, who was my boss, and all of that. So it was the worst decision, and it was purely made on paper. It wasn't made on like the what was really needed for me and what my heart was telling me because I was so swayed by my head, and it was a massive lesson where I just thought I I I will never just go towards something because the money's good. We have to be able to sort of bring all the different elements of ourselves together, and sometimes that need to earn can squat absolutely everything. But the way you're telling this story is so beautiful because it's like, well, I could do this and I could do that, and I could actually just be in a van and be happy, you know, and and have everything I need because I've got my dogs, and as long as I can get Wi-Fi and I can work, I can still earn money, and it's like, yes, that's a that's the bare minimum, doesn't it? It's like brass tacks, and I think often we get squashed into these places, like we make the decisions based on what looks good on paper, but actually we've sold ourselves out because our dreams and our hearts have been totally minimalised and ignored. Um, so there's that side of it as well.

SPEAKER_01 28:09

And what I always love about you is you have this faith in um the faith in um I don't know what to call it, like the universe to provide or whatever, but like you have I just always think it'll be alright, it's all gonna be alright, and uh and if not, you can make a blumming good story out of it along the way.

Soft Landings And Pandemic Perspective

SPEAKER_01 28:28

Um, and uh during COVID, um it there was like this this pretty tough time because clearly, you know, everything dried up. Um I'd launched my book on the 26th of March, supposed to have this big opening. Um, and I think it was the 23rd of March that we all were told to stay at home. Um, all of my contracts that were supposed to be going out and doing delivery, they all got cancelled, and um my whole life changed. So I remember saying to the girls, look, you know, we've got enough money to live on for about four and a half months. After that, then we might need to make some tough decisions. And um, the worst case scenario, and I mean I I know I'm very privileged in this, but the worst case scenario was we leave our house, we go and live with my mum, who's got a four-bedroomed house. Um, and if that's the worst case scenario that we've got roof over our heads with people who love us, I'm I'm doing all right, and I think that's where I get my confidence. And I always said my values were independence, but also with this soft cushion, should I fall? And I and I think that's where I get my optimism from because I always know that there'll be a soft landing and people to love me and care for me. And I know that not everybody has that, um, which maybe give gives that fuck it kind of mentality.

SPEAKER_00 29:55

I love that, yeah. I hear you with that. Somehow things work out, and I think you can see that when you look back over your life, you can see those moments. The the decisions that you know, where you you quit yourself a little bit, you abandoned yourself, but yet you still ended up, you know, somewhere else. But it was actually sunny side up. It almost up, and perhaps,

Healing, Manifesting And Living Honestly

SPEAKER_00 30:15

yeah. I mean, for me, my sunny side up was was a hospital like you know, was was breaking my life. But actually, then that time that followed was a really deep, deeply meaningful time for me. And I ended up learning about, you know, like body and health. And I read Louise Hay's book, You Can Heal Your Life, and I looked at all of the issues in my life, and I just worked started working through it, and it taught me so much about what I'm thinking, what I'm feeling, what I'm sensing, and how my body responds and how we manifest as well, how we manifest negatively, taught me so many things. And at the age of 31, you know, at that time in the world, people weren't talking about manifesting, they weren't talking about healing really. It I was always interested, but it was a bit more again, it was a part of myself that I'd hidden. And so I was allowed to sort of give myself that full permission to be like, no, go, read these books, you can't walk anyway. So read the books, get the learning, and then work out the next bit, and then work out the next bit. And I think that's what we're saying, isn't it? We are living our lives today as women, not as women trying to be men, not as women who are hiding parts of ourselves, we're sort of fully out, loud and proud, and we are taking it one step at a time, and we are working out working out things bit by bit, and I don't think there's anything that could be more honest than that.

Wise Words And A Sisterly Sign Off

SPEAKER_01 31:33

No, and uh, and this is why I value our conversation so much because even as you're saying that, I'm like, yes, that is like the mantra I want every day of my life, and as a nice roundup for our listeners, we hope you take those words, go back and listen to them. They are wise words indeed. Um, and yeah, just try and build that into your life every single day. It's been an absolute pleasure to have this conversation. Hope you've enjoyed it too. Until next time, say it sister.