Matriarchy Now. Stop rescuing everyone.

Patriarchy has had thousands of years to prove itself, and we are watching the cracks spread in real time. So what happens if we stop treating “matriarchy” as a joke, a reversal, or a fantasy, and start treating it as a practical framework for healthier leadership, families, and communities?

We are Karen Heras Kelly, and Lucy Barkas, two friends, women’s leadership coaches, mothers and midlifers who are done with staying quiet. We unpack the biggest myths: matriarchy is not women acting like patriarchs, and it is not “women over men”. We talk about matriarchy as shared responsibility, role-fit, and wisdom-led decision making, where accountability replaces blame and problems get worked through collaboratively rather than controlled, punished, or ignored. Along the way we pull in history, anthropology, and what nature teaches us about sustainable systems.

The conversation gets personal as we explore what matriarchy looks like at home: no gendered chores, honest conversations when someone is hurt, and values that get reinforced over years. We also name the harmoniser pattern many women carry, the emotional labour of keeping the peace, and the midlife reset that says: your happiness is your job, my happiness is mine. If you have ever felt burnt out from performing competence in a capitalist, patriarchal environment, you will hear yourself in this.

We close with simple, grounded ways to begin: spot the controller within you, invite other voices into decisions, and let nature slow your body back into safety so you can lead from truth rather than fear. If this resonates, subscribe, share the episode with a friend, and leave us a review so more women can find the language for what they already know.

Send us a comment, ask a question, or suggest a topic. We would love to hear from you

Transcript

Why Matriarchy Matters Now

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to another episode of the Saves Podcast with Karen Harris, Kelly, and Mrs. Markus. We're two friends, women's leadership coaches, mothers and midlifers who have something to say. And we are encouraging other women to use their voices and say the things that really matter. And this week we're talking matriarchy, the myths, the truth, and the reasons why we need to give it a go. Like truly give it a go. Because let's face it, patriarchy has had its time. And it isn't working for 99% of the population anymore. Morning Lucy, how are you?

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Um, I'm good. I've been doing my little bit of matriarchy this weekend. Uh, gathering with, well, in my group, there were 50 young people between the age of four and fourteen on a scout camp, and it was amazing. And the reason why I say it was like very matriarchy is because isn't that what it's all about? It's about us grown-ups creating the right environment so children can thrive. Um, and we were out in nature, the sun was shining, uh, there was uh wildlife everywhere, and it just it was bliss. So, yes, I am good. Um, but yeah, the the topic of matriarchy always it always comes back time and time again to me because, as you know, I am a scient uh social scientist and I geek out on learning about different systems and how different people live, um, and yeah, why people choose to live like they do. And I mean matriarchy is as old as time, but I didn't really learn about it until actually I went to university. Um, because it's almost been erased from our understanding of, you know, well, all we do is live in a patriarchy, and whether it's our books, our stories, our societies, our schools, our business, everything is based around patriarchy. And because you don't know that there is another option, you just blindly just keep going with the motions. We've been so conditioned. Um, so learning about different cultures, different ways of living, rewriting history uh by women and um actually looking at anthropological sites and going back and looking at how animals live with a female lens is just blowing my mind. So I get I really geek out on it. Uh, where are you with the the geeking out or the awareness of matriarchy? Before I explain what it all is.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Well, I'm a historian, so you're the social scientist, and I'm the historian, and I look at the past to make sense of the journeys, and then I, you know, look at like what needs to change ultimately and then bring that back into the future and into the present. And I think and I always wondered when I became a coach, you know, I always wondered why did I do history? Like, what was the historical piece about? And I've always been fascinated by you know lands of

Matriarchy Erased From Our Stories

SPEAKER_00 3:00

old and different cultures, and you know, visited so many countries and you know done all of that sort of culture-based work out of pure interest, really, but I've also got a degree in it, and it I just thought it was just something I I it was just an interest, but now I see that it was just really a I have a deep need to understand different civilizations, much like you, and to then like get the lessons, and this is what really frustrates me sometimes when I look at the world and I think, why are we still having world wars? You know, like haven't we been through enough? And they're quite recent. So as a historian, I can get very frustrated because I feel like sometimes each generation forgets, you know, the the wisdom of the past, and I think it's really important for us to share that and talk about it. And for me, matriarchy, you know, I I always go back to Cleopatra and to Egypt and to this whole di idea of like actually the power of female queens, female leaders, and how they ruled and how they had their like women around them as well, and it was just done from a much more intelligent place, from a place of deeper wisdom. So that's you know, that's really where I go to. And I think when I think about matriarchy, I think about nature. I think about how mother nature, you know, like evolves and changes and shifts.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

And for me, like we know that Oh, you just said the word mother nature.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Nature, exactly, you know, and and so we've been doing so much work, haven't we, recently, with nature and root systems and trees with our women's group on apologetic and the the impact on the women, you know, who are all around our age, of actually reconnecting back into nature, looking at like what nature is here to teach us as well, it's been profound. They're dreaming about nature. I mean, it's just a wonderful experience, and I think how have we been so disconnected from the true core of who we are, which is part of nature?

SPEAKER_01 4:56

Yeah, and you know what? When you look at the um dictionary definition of matriarchy, even that frustrates me because it basically just says that it a matriarchy is when women rule, but automatically we then go and view that through a patriarchal lens, so we look at it like women are at the top of the institutions, um, and so there's that um uh film on Netflix at the moment, which is literally you know the the opposite that if women were running all organisations, uh they even like go to a funeral and they say um uh instead of our men at the end of the prayer, they say our women, you know, they really take it to the end of the degree, and I'm like, it wouldn't be like that because women wouldn't operate if we were like um in charge and making the doing the governance and the judicial system and the finance systems and organizing how people lived, it wouldn't be anything like it is right now, and yeah, it's taken like 4,000 years for us to go from our old nomadic systems into the world we know now. So I can start to see the old system, the patriarchal system, starting to unravel. More and more people are talking about uh different ways of living and being and existing and questioning like this world is crazy, this world is mad, so it's starting to unravel. But to get pure matriarchy or something completely different, it's gonna take decades, it's gonna take centuries, it's gonna take a millennia. But what we want to do is start looking at um actually what would it be like if we brought some of those matriarchal practices into our lives today. Now, for me, it turns out I've actually been living in a matriarchal society in my own home for many, many years. Because actually it's just me and my girls living at home, and it has been for the definitely the last 10 years, but before that I was still pretty much the matriarch of the family. Um, and so when it I look at the way that we do things in our household, there are no pink jobs and blue jobs, there are just our jobs because we're the only people that live here. Um and when we come to you know, when there's a dispute about something, we sit down and we talk about it. When somebody has upset somebody, we sit there and we say, Look, what's going on behind the scenes? Why why did this emerge? What are we learning from this? And I think the one thing that really guides more than anything is the principle of accountability that each one of us holds each other accountable. There's no blame. Oh, she did this and she did that. It's like, yeah, this is my part, this is the bit that I own. And it doesn't just happen, it takes consistency of values and culture and reinforcement. And in the 22 years that I've been a mum, that has basically been my part, and now I can see it, you know, in its full entirety. I'm like, wow, I did that, and I'm so protective of it now. But then I realize that's how I've always led, it's how I've interacted in all of my my world. So it's really interesting to be able to reflect on that. Um, what about your home? How how matriarchal do you sense it is, or is it very traditional or even patriarchal? Because I know that you are your profession uh your maiden name in your work, but you did take your husband's name in your marriage. So beyond that, what's it like?

SPEAKER_00 8:39

It's well, it's very similar to my parents actually in some ways. So, you know, like the the roles are blended, and that's how we do it. So, you know, my husband does all the cooking, he does the washing, he he loves pegging the clothes out, you know, all of that. So he's much very much like a a proud home person and he loves to, you know, get involved and he he does all the gardening, he loves the garden, he's into nature. So You do the jobs you love, the ones that you've got to do. Yeah, we we sort of split it. Absolutely. Yeah, we split it. And it it it's making arguing. Yeah, and it doesn't feel like anyone's carrying a alert. I definitely do more of the emotional lifting, but I'm a coach and I'm good at that stuff, and he's not so great at that. So we but we have to talk about it. So we sit and we have conversations, and I'm always the one that will open that stuff up and you know, like get into it, and he would leave it a lot l well, I don't know if he's ever sort of like called a meeting, it's always me. So that's something that is is I would say matriarchal that he doesn't really hold, but that's okay because as long as as long as I can do that, you know, like there's a point when we sort of like that's not really his thing. So I start to.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

So let's just be clear the matriarchy is not about again women being in charge. The matriarchy is basically yes, women are the rulers, but it's about empowering everybody to do the role that is best for them. Yes, that's exactly it. Um rather than you're a big bloke, so you need to go and hunt, or

Redefining Matriarchy Beyond Women Ruling

SPEAKER_01 10:10

you are um a an effeminate woman, so therefore you need to raise the children. Um it's about saying what is it that is best for you and how can we utilise everybody in the village in the community, which I really love that idea of.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

And that's exactly what is that exactly what we do because there's no point in trying to force, you know, like we just don't see the point of trying to sort of cover off different areas when it's not, we're either not interested or we're not very good at it. Like he'll be like, just move away from the dishwasher, Karen, it's not you, you know, because I am not good at doing the dishwasher, and I'll say to him, but you're now like you've taken that over, and then you complain, so we'll have those conversations, and I'm like, but you won't let me near it. So I bring I ground him back down in like his choices as well, because I'm not great at that, and that's fine. Like, who you know, it works for me as well. Let's let's just be fair.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

And it sounds like a real partnership rather than he is the head of the household, it's his name that you all carry, so therefore he's the head of the table. Da da da.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

Oh, yeah, no.

SPEAKER_01 11:10

It's a partnership, and that is yeah, that is matri uh matriarchal. Now, in traditional matriarchal societies, um the line was always matrilineal. So, actually, quite often there was no marriage, there was no concept of property ownership, which is what marriage is. Um, and the the name passed down the mother's line because let's face it, that's the only way you could actually guarantee your genes going through you know the womb line. Um, and men were never excluded, they had very important roles and were really valued. So it wasn't that women have power over, it was never about that. It was about that actually women have got incredible leadership skills, so let's put them in the the wise leadership judicial, even the high priestess roles as the wisdom, the intuitives, and let's put men in the areas that suits them. So you even now where there are still matriarchal societies, you see that the men may be the farmers, the hunters, the gatherers, the builders, um, the people who like look after the food and the water and the provider in that sense. But equally, if their gift is being a teacher to the children uh or lighting the fire, then they will stay on camp, they will stay in the the homestead. Yeah, um, and I think that's absolutely beautiful. And we see historically now that um uh in a lot of tombs where they've opened them up thinking that they were warriors, well, actually they were hunters who were women because actually the women were a bit more nimble, uh they could um accelerate faster, they could hide and be more silent. So for certain terrains, the women were actually the hunters, which is why your history and the anthropology comes in because you're like, we're dispelling all of these myths that we were told, but I did want to just um pick up on a a strand that you picked up on, um, something that you're noticing within your home about a role that you've taken, and I thought it'd be interesting to look at it through maybe a patriarchal and then maybe a matriarchal lens. So, why don't you tell us a little bit about the the awareness that's come up for you?

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Well, I realised that as a child I was always a harmoniser, and I really look to my parents and think, well, how are they? Are they okay? And so then I would sort of adapt myself, you know, and I know this is quite common for children anyway, but it was like I took on whatever they were experiencing, I I always felt like it was my fault if they weren't happy or if they were angry, like I put the blame on myself, and I've always been like that, and I always I would say, like, as I got older, I would say, Well, if you're happy, I'm happy, you know, and there's a part of me that wants the people around me to be happy, I I love beautiful things, I want it to look nice, so that there's this sort of part of me that feels very much like I'm very ambitious, but I'm also a homemaker, I like a beautiful home. That's really important to me because I thought it was about making it nice for others, but actually I realize there's a part of me that's like, no, I like it like that for me. And as I'm you know, as I'm getting older, I'm like, actually, this is about me, it's not about you, this is about me. So as I am aging, I'm going, uh harmony is a beautiful thing. However, it can be something that really, really could be quite restrictive because it means that you have to be the peacekeeper, you have to like go through various things, and actually somebody else's happiness is their responsibility, and my happiness is my responsibility. So there's been like a a reset that's been happening, and I think you know, my mum was a nurse, she was always helping people, she the door was all someone was always knocking on the door saying this has happened or that's happened, and she would always be there with medical advice and that kind of thing. And so I for me it's like actually uh the woman's job is not just to give, and this whole thing around giving and creating actually I feel it's really important that we reset that and say, We also need to receive, we also need to take care of our own needs, and I feel like this is the big, you know, the big area that feels still quite taboo for women because we're so accustomed to, you know, in some ways we're also the providers, we're providing on many different levels for many different people, and we're forgetting that actually we have a right, and that our right is to uh listen to that deep part of ourselves that's saying that's not it for you. So that's been the reset for me that's been happening. I've seen it in other women, and now I'm sort of and I've seen it in myself as well, but it it it feels like it's further away now because I feel like I've been resetting and really sort of coming into myself for at least ten years.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Just to put a little bit of context around that in terms of the matriarchy patriarchy. Um the patriarchy sees the woman's role as being subservient to be the homemaker, whereas the matriarchy um absolutely sees the woman's role, reveres it, really supports it as being the creator of life, but it's it's not it is the ultimate role, not the the the secondary role. And so within the patriarchy, the woman um is trained right from day one to create a nice home. Her job is to uh make it peaceful and harmony and um make sure there's a meal on the table, that by the time Daddy gets home, um, that the children are all fed and watered and they're out of sight, you know, and out of mind. Um and

Matriarchy At Home Through Accountability

SPEAKER_01 16:55

it's just that to create this peace uh and almost this superficialness. So during the day it might have been hectic, but by the time dad gets home, it's calm. And I think that those messages have been given to women, well, from my whole lifestyle, and also that you know, we always defer decisions to the man, and so we actually play subservient, we play dumb, we play a bit um coy about things, and then I think there is something as we get older and wiser, um, and it's not about us now having our own money where it there is a little bit because that gives us choice, but actually it's just this maturing that happens in our 40s and 50s, where we're just like, actually, I'm quite capable of making my own decision, I know what I want. Why am I behaving like that? And we also see our daughters almost playing that role that we played, and we're like, What are you doing? Why are you behaving like that? That's not your job. Be equal, be a partnership. So I just wanted to like speak to that a little bit because you said yes, it's in your childhood, but I think there was a lot of conditioning that you like, well, that's mummy's role, that's daddy's role, even though they weren't partnership.

SPEAKER_00 18:05

Because they were totally mixed as well. Like, my dad was really hands-on with everything, he did so much, and he also did a lot of the shopping. They shared everything and they shared the housework. So your dad was not patriarchal, no, not at all.

SPEAKER_01 18:17

And so for me that well, he's a rare one then, because for men of his generation, actually, they don't know it that how conditioned they were that. Um so was your mum the one getting the hammer out and went all the toiletly doing it.

SPEAKER_00 18:30

They shared, they shared everything was was pretty shared. So it was so that's what I'm saying. Like, for me, like I can't imagine any relationship I ever had where there was any sort of any notes of that. I was very, I was very on it. That's why I didn't, you know, I I met I met my husband when I was 39, you know, I never got married because I was really like questioning and like putting things under spotlights because I was just very clear that I that wasn't going to be my path. So because I saw this role modelling from my parents, and I just thought, that's what I want. I want a man I could cut, I want a man who will go and do the shopping, I want a man who will share the house work. They both worked full-time, they both had really good jobs. Then my mum became more like um as her career took off in a much bigger way. She got really quite high up in the health service and was just flying really. And then my dad took on more of that sort of, even though he was working full-time, he would he was more hands-on. So they worked between them, but it it wasn't like the trad rop, you know, the wives that were seeing, it wasn't nothing like that in my family.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

So so what I'm hearing is that actually your harmoniser is nothing to do with the matriarchy or the patriarchy. I don't know. So we might as well just scrap this podcast because uh you completely dispelled our conversation.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

No, but it no, because I think there is a conditioning that does happen, but I don't think I think it was more like the the conditioning that happened for me was more like we're really busy, we need you to perform we need you to behave, and it felt like performative, like this is your role, this is what you do, you know. So it was that was my experience, and then you know, I look around at my life and I think hmm, other people always felt like I had to give, I had to give. Now, where did that conditioning come from? Some of it came from my parents, but not from a traditional place, I think just from being busy and having to get on with things. That's where I go. What about you?

SPEAKER_01 20:25

Uh well, my my growing up was very traditional. Um, my mum uh started off as a nanny, and then she was um a hairdresser, then she was um a cook. Um she was a cleaner for a little time, so she did those kind of jobs. My dad, one of my dads was a builder, um, because that was the route open to him when he left school, and the other one became an engineer and uh uh became manufacturing director, it working in automotive. So there was definitely those gender roles, um and it just worked. Um, my mum like loved her life, I think my dad loved his life. Um, but the difference was was both of my dads, my stepdad and my real dad, um, they brought me up to not be gendered. So my dad would show me how to mix cement and get me like um building balls, or the other dad would take me to the factory and talk to me about manufacturing and all of this stuff, and um, so they didn't raise me as a girls girl, and um all of my cousins were boys, so I was always playing football and rough and tumble. So um, but the the whole system it it's conditioned because actually then you go and even back then you'd see like the doctors were all men and the nurses were all women, yeah. Um, and uh even in the playground the boys were doing rough and tumble, you know, um play, where the girls were told, Well, you that's not how girls behave. Behave or sit with your legs crossed or wear pretty clothes and stuff like that. And then from the harmoniser point of view, um absolutely it was conditioned that yeah, the girls keep the peace, or if something goes wrong with the girls, well you you go and say sorry, and it was just the instant, even if you didn't if you weren't sorry, you had to pretend to be sorry um and be be quieter. So there was definitely all of that conditioning in there.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

Uh but it's about gender now, isn't it? So like because we're dissecting something that is is really important because we're as we're going through the process of our work and our lives, we're sort of trying to go like make sense of these patterns that we've inherited in some ways.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

Well, matriarchy and patriarchy is gendered, um, because that's the way that it is, that's how they divide the different roles. Um, and I wish we didn't see gender as not equal, but the fact is um the that the way that we live our lives, the way that we order things is gendered, uh, and therefore the the traits that are in gendered to men

Gender Conditioning And The Harmoniser Role

SPEAKER_01 23:05

to facilitate the patriarchy are seen as good and worthy, as in the push, the control, the um the building, the always using all the resources, grabbing self-preservation, all of those things that are capitalist and you know exist in the patriarchy are seen as positive, and all of those which are softer, listening, um taking care of each other, more servant leadership, um, are seen as weak or soft, and it is more feminine leadership. And so when you put it like that, it's all gendered, even though we all have it within us. Um, and it's interesting how we are now seeing so many women who have been working in the corporate in the capitalist environment who are coming to us now completely burnt out because that I guess that's the cost of it.

SPEAKER_00 24:03

It is, and you know that where this takes me is also this place of I think in my 40s there was so much trauma that I experienced that I had to sort of almost like shut myself away for a while and do the work, and what unfolded from that place for me was a very feminine approach to healing and life. For me, this is where matriarchy sits, and I can only sort of take it from the work that I was doing, and it was very much around it's really important that we feel that we have our emotions, and so in the feeling there is healing as opposed to robotic and closed down, don't show emotion, you know, like control, which feels very patriarchal. So I was like, Oh, I have to go in, I have to feel these feelings, and then there's going to be a level of healing that will happen in stages, and then it was like I need to feel longing again because everything feels very, very quite dark. So there was a longing part, like, and we're doing this work at the moment with dreaming, and so that was really, really powerful, and then it was like, What do I belong to? and it was about connecting into a sense of belonging, like, where are my people? Like, what does that look like? And you know, like really coming back into values and all of that work that you mentioned earlier, and then it was like, What do I need to express? What am I going to create? And so it was it became something that felt like almost like a creative wheel, but actually, each of those phases in that circle was really, really important to me, and I couldn't really doesn't matter what order it came in, but I would I was so deeply embodied, and for me it was like this sort of like wonder of like when when somebody like in the old tribes, when somebody was sick or ill, the whole of the tribe would come together and they would they would take care of that person, you know. Some of the tribes, like the Kalahari tribes in the desert, would dance and raise their vibration because that was a way of healing, you know. So we've got all these different touch points from different, you know, different tribes, different times, that some of it's still happening where you go, Well, there were different ways, and I think the way that we have all been trained to live is very much like you know, shut the door, um, don't talk about that. There's so many taboos and the status quo, and it all fits into this sort of like pretense. And I feel like for me that matriarchal uh power is very much about truth, reality, um, sharing, coming together, um, creating differently. So that's that's how I see it on a very, very sort of like top line level. Where does that take you?

SPEAKER_01 26:44

Um it takes me to and I I've said this many, many times, it takes me to community. Um in old world, that's how everybody lived, uh, because nobody owned anything. Um, and unless you were like we have now the the wealthy one percent, unless you were in the the the kings or queens or the lords and ladies, um all of us were almost peasants, and so we had to help each other out. We were all on an equal footing. So in our um communities without gas uh and electricity, we probably had to go down to the river or the well um and look after, you know, it was a shared resource. Um, yeah, we looked out for each other, but equally, yeah, we had the medicines, we had our own midwives, we looked out for the seasons, we looked after, you know, the rain and the droughts and all of this kind of stuff. We raised the pigs and the cattle and the sheep, and we did it collectively in our little hamlet. And so it wasn't just my child, it's our children. Um, and if you know, within our DNA, if you were expelled from your tribe or your community, well, that meant pretty much death because you can't do it on your own. So, yeah, when I said like everybody has their role, it that's what it's all about. And when there's a problem, rather than everybody fighting uh or trying to rob and steal and pillage from each other, actually, when there was a problem, we would actually sit down, uh whether in a tent or around a fire, and we would talk it out. That was the judicial system back then, and that's what we're really missing. Um, and it is very matriarchal because it's about thoughts, feelings, wisdom, looking taking care of the um the world around you. Only take what you need, um, be sustainable, be enduring. Um whereas at the moment we are just purging the earth and the waters and the air that we breathe, and it's it it just breaks my heart.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

Yeah, same. I agree with you on that. I I think absolutely the same, you know. And I do agree with that, like we don't really own anything, you know, in truth. And we when we leave, we go, we go, don't we? We don't take anything with us, and yeah, I think it's that reminder, it's a s it's a stark reminder of what really, really matters, which is about how we are together, and for me it takes me into this place of you know, when I think about equality, it's becoming like a trickier one for me now because I was always like, Well, we are equal, we're all the same, nobody's better than anyone else, or worse than anyone else, and we all have our work to do on the inside. So that was always like a bit of a leveler for me.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

But then I as I'm doing more and more of the work as a woman, I'm like women's bodies are so different to men's, so it's not about it's about

Healing Through Community Truth And Nature

SPEAKER_01 29:45

differences, I think, and being, you know, like we are we're all human, we're all the same species, and yet we have these profound differences that that make us different, you know, and understanding that and understanding making space and acceptance for all of those differences to thrive. That's what is important, whereas at the moment, um some are more equal than others, and whether that's your skin tone, yeah, um, whether that is your gender, whether it is your age, uh, your religion, some are deemed more worthy than others. And actually, in a matriarchal society, no, we are all equal and loved and adored. And actually, there wouldn't be the need for wars or prisons and things like that, because actually there would be less people in poverty, there'd be less people being hurt or traumatized and then working their crap out on other people. It's not a utopia, it's never going to be utopia, but there's different ways to fix problems than fighting violence, locking people up, robbing things, uh, hoarding things, and so I just want yeah, the wise women to be revered again, to value the high priestesses, uh, to welcome the the witchy ones, um, and yeah, get their wisdom and hang out with them because that they have the answers. And I I know for myself, every minute of every day I'm feeling wiser and I've got a long journey to go. But I'm like, yeah, talk to me, and I want to talk to other women because we have answers.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

We do, we do, and it's about creating the space, and we were talking we've been talking separately, haven't we, about the idea of like going in and fixing things and making and again that goes back into the harmoniser rule for me. Like, you know, oh, there's a problem, like let's go fix that and let's make that okay for that person. And I think as I'm aging, I'm like, actually, no, we are here to hold the space to you know listen, guide when it's needed, but ultimately allow people to find their own answers, and as coaches, that's our job, isn't it? You know, like sometimes we have an inkling or something, and it can be helpful to share it and say I don't think we can have the superhero complex, and again, that is patriarchal mindset that one person is like there to rescue everyone else.

SPEAKER_01 32:11

Whereas I think in pure matriarchy, um, we are there to hold other people accountable and responsible, but equally, when something is wrong, we don't think we're the ones to fix it. We gather and we say, right, let's collaboratively work. What is the right solution? And that might be asking the children, the elderly, the uh the criminal, the violated or the violator, and say, help us understand how do we fix this so we can improve things? It's all about co-creation. Um, and yeah, giving the voice to the marginalized so that there is no more marginalization.

SPEAKER_00 32:46

Absolutely. So, what was you what would your thing be for anyone listening today that just goes this there's a lot going on in the house in the background, you know, that it's like, oh, I'm interested in this, but how do I start to implement, you know, more of a matriarchal um approach to daily life? What would you suggest that they they go do?

SPEAKER_01 33:07

So my first thing would be to recognize the controller within yourself. Um, and that might be the one that needs to control how the kitchen is, or control what day the washing is done on, or control what you eat and things like that, and actually sit down and ask the family, you know, is this working for you? And and it's not about getting the feedback, it's actually involving other voices and letting go of that bit of control and just see what happens, just see what emerges. It might be that you actually are so controlling that they're dumbfounded and they don't have the answers because you've never allowed them to think for themselves before. Um, so that's where I would start um inviting others into the decision making.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

Yeah, and I think I would say go out into nature and observe, behold, just take time, you know, sit, watch, listen to the sounds, you know, allow yourself to open up and feel held. Because I think for me, like in the patriarchal, it's almost like it's fear programming, it's relentless. There's no, you know, if you pause or stop, that's actually a dangerous place. And I think when we start to sort of like feel more held, we're actually like, actually, I am okay right now. It is safe for me to take some breaths, and I give myself permission to take some breaths, and then see what's there.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

I would also recommend everybody move into the countryside because us country pumpkins have a very different pace of life to the city dwellers. Um, and so everything you're saying there, I absolutely echo because when you're walking past a stream or um some baby lambs being born and things like that, you have to stop.

SPEAKER_00 34:51

Yeah, you have to take notice because it's just so beautiful. And I I do

Practical Ways To Start Today

SPEAKER_00 34:55

really believe in allowing ourselves to be touched by nature, you know, to be moved by nature. And it might be music that we're hearing, but it's like we it's like there's something about the movement piece of being like, you know, just like I am rigid in my body, I am up and forward and out, you know. You know, and if we come back, yeah, we come back in and we start to open up, you know, and it's much more of like a holding position and you know, opening, holding, opening, receiving, and start to work with that and then see what's you know the landscape around you, and even just watching the sunsets or the sunrise gives you a very, very profound feeling of wow, like awe and wonder, magic.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

Yeah, absolutely. So it's time to uh close our little conversation. It's given me a lot to think about. Um, and you've asked me some challenging questions, so thank you.

SPEAKER_00 35:53

I think for me, I think I'm also realising that this is whilst we have information from the past, that it's about really sort of just allowing this idea to unfold and continuing to sort of see what we can sort of prize out because whether we like it or not, both of us have been conditioned by a patriarchal society, even if we're not living our life, you know, through that lens necessarily, we are still impacted and affected, and it's just keeping that close eye on that and just being like, oh, is that something that I truly believe, or is that something that I have inherited, or like even if we don't necessarily know where the conditionings come from, it doesn't matter, but we need to spot the conditioning first.

SPEAKER_01 36:34

Absolutely, that's what's coming up for me, and I think um we often think it is really it's impossible to change the world. Um, but the best way we can change the world is by stop by stop giving our energy to things that aren't serving us anymore. Um, whether it's a a role or a structure or a belief system that actually holds us back and suppresses us, because like you say, it's it's about becoming aware. Is that mine? Is that there as a tool to keep me small and in my place? And then start creating matriarchy in your own world. Um and you know, don't give yourself abundantly to everybody without getting anything back in return. So and don't keep consuming endlessly things that actually don't give you peace or any inner joy. Um turn off your ads, if anything else, or get off social media and stop scrolling. But you know, the final line I want to say is matriarchal leadership is not about saving everyone. Uh, it's not about giving to everyone, it's about becoming so rooted in your truth that you no longer feel the need to rescue to feel valuable. Until next time, say it, sister.